1st Job: Tiling my house, need some advice

[tek_01]

Hi all, new to the forum so take it easy on me

Basically im up to the tiling part of my house and what i have done so far is on the 65 sq m of floorboards have secured them all down with screws into the joists and packed any gaps under the house between joists/bearers/piers.
I Have then nailed down some ceramic tile underlay (compressed fibro stuff) in accordance with manufacturers instructions leaving expansion joints at all door ways. So far so good...

Now i went out and bought 600x600 polished porcelain with square edges (no bevel) because of the look and price was in my budget + the wife was nagging me she wanted them so boss wins. Now the floor is far from flat in some areas but it would cost me WAY too much to put down floor leveller so im going to have to try make do with bit thicker/thinner glue in some spots.
I have bought the LASH tile spacers in order to make my life that bit easier. Good choice for a newb? I understand these wont level my floor but will aids in having no lippage.

Also, i have a 100mm step down into my lounge room. What should i do on the edge there? I was originally going to put some caesarstone strip about 150mm along it (3m length) but am now thinking just to bring the tile right to the edge. Any thought? Dont really want to put an angle strip thing there as it would look crummy

Ive got plenty more questions but this will do for now
Thanks

[Bri]

Welcome along to TF. What is the product you have used as an underlay? Do you have a brand/product name please.

[kendo1]

I reckon there will still be some bounce in the floorboards. You'll be best to put down some ply, 18 -22mm thick, and then some backer board.

If you skimp at this stage you'd be as well throwing the tiles in a skip.

[tek_01]

Im from australia so unsure if you guys will know the brands but anyhow ill state what they are

Floor is 19mm hardwood t&g (prob 50 yrs old). The underlay is james hardie Ceramic tile underlay
The glue im using is going to be a 2 part flex, most expensive. Davco Tradeflex is the name. Also going to prime the fibro with Davco Ultraprime.

I Know there is going to be bounce but im past the point of tearing up floor boards (and over budget). Do you reall think i will have problems?

[kendo1]

To the third para- yep!
Any bounce and the grout will crack as the tiles move.
If your over budget I suggest that you wait until you can afford to do it correctly. Otherwise you're wasting the money you have already spent.

It all depends on the bounce!

[Daz]

Have a chat with Jay, View Profile: jay - TilersForums.co.uk | Tile Forums | Tiling Forum, he'll be able to assist.

Good luck

Daz

[whitebeam]

If you have bounce on the floor, yes you will...

[tek_01]

Ok, How much bounce is acceptable? When walking on the floor i havent noticed any bounce but being wooden floors, im sure there is 'some' bounce. Any creaking while walking i have fixed by packing any gaps underneath the joists and also using 100mm batten screws thought joists and bearers.
I could (painstakingly as there is less than 60cm gap) go back under the house and put noggins in between joists but im not sure how this will fix 'up and down' movement? and nailing wont work into this hardwood as the gun shoots them only half way so pre-drilling and screwing is the only way i will get the noggins in.

So basically, how to measure bounce?
Cheers for the replies so far

[tek_01]

Sorry dont know how to edit posts so have to double post. But incase there was a misunderstanding, i have screwed down each floor board to every single joist (where the old nails where) so there are no loose floor boards sitting on joists in case thats where you are talking about bounce??

Im taking about the whole floor moving up/down... which can only be fixed (I think) by either more piers or thicker bearers/joists.

[whitebeam]

Fill a glass of water to the brim and walk across the floor and perhaps jump to see if any water leaves the glass, not technical but as a general rule..

[tek_01]

Will try that when i get a chance today after work

Is it worth using the LASH tile spacer things? (too late now i ordered them lol)

How about strapping under the house? like metal strap bracing ?

[whitebeam]

Noggins would stop any twist in the timber, straps would better than nothing...if the joists are over 2.5m then they should have had noggins, diagonal pieces of timber or metal pieces that go between the joists...thats over hear anyway the rules could be different in your neck of the woods.

[tek_01]

Yes, similar sort of standard, however this house being twice as old as me must have not followed any sort of standards.. really shoddy work

Looks like im going back under the house again =(

[jay]

You need to sort out the movement first noggins or wedges under stumps if required .the lash clips may help but they state that with lash clips the floor must be level before use see if you can exchange the clips for some self leveling compound .your adh is not one i would recomend and think you could do better there .how big is the floor

[tek_01]

Whats wrong with the tradeflex? i was led to beileve it was the best to use?

timber section is approx 55 sq and back part is slab which is another 30 sq

[tek_01]

Would something like ardex x56 be better? your making me panic =(
My old man tiled his whole house direct on timber floors with cheap ceramic tiles using a 2 part glue and 20 years on he has not got one crack. Ive done everything 10x better than he has and im worried ill get cracks (and you guys aint helping! lol)

Thanks for the help so far

[Muse2k8]

Test the floor for any bounce first incase your being paranoid then let us know. There might be no bounce in which case you may be ok

[tek_01]

I will

So any ideas for the step i mentioned in my first post? Will the edge of the porcelain tile be strong enough to withstand being a step corner?

[jay]

Just advising the adh you mentioned is not one i would recommend, the step you have limited your options you could miter the edges or but joint it (my choice would be stainless steal l shaped angle)

porc is one of the stronger ones as far as chipping but still can be chipped

[tek_01]

What would you recommend as adhesive? I have only purchased 1 kit (40kg powder/20L additive) so far so can make a change if need be.

Also in regards to bouncing floors. Id say they are OK. As far i know there is no such thing as a timber floor that doesnt deflect that fraction enough to disrupt the water in a cup.

The step i am thinking of overhanging the top tile enough to make it flush when the bottom tile is in place. Wife is willing to take the gamble on it chipping as she doesnt like any sort of edging... After all she is boss lol

Thanks for the advice so far

[jay]

Mapei Laticrete or Ardex would be fine .the floor with that size tile needs to be bounce free looks like the Boss wins on the step just have a good look at the edge of the tile as you will have to look at it for a long time

good luck

jay

[tek_01]

Sorry mate, the whole job is that big but the biggest area is approx 6m x 5m if that makes a difference, the rest is 3 rooms and a hallway

[jay]

Same story needs to be bounce free smaller tiles you may get away with a slight bounce but not 600x600

[tek_01]

Well im fairly certain it is 'bounce' free, but you will still get vibrations right? unless its a solid slab i dont see how you are not going to

Also think im stick for grout colour :/ tiles are white with a little beige. What colour grout would you go? contrasting in grey or something would look weird wont it on these with small grout lines? and using white will end up yellow after a few months/years. Tile is closer to white than it is to cream

[jay]

There is always epoxy grout if you wish to go light or white

[tek_01]

Would that eliminate the colour getting dirty and/or yellowing over time?

[jay]

if you use the right epoxy yes

[Muse2k8]

Yeah you will get vibrations in anything, even concrete. The glass of water test is a good one. If the floor does have bounce the water will go everywhere. If it's just vibration you will get that whole jurassic park thing.

[tek_01]

Thanks for that. Been doing alot of reading on the forum lately and have come across another question

Initially i was going to go 3mm grout line on the floor because it would be easier for the new tiler and probably better, but everyone i have spoke to has said with these tiles you have to use small space ie 1.5mm or else they will look weird. Also the lash system use 1.5mm spacers.

Ive read on here that the standard is 3mm for floors, so why does everyone use 1.5mm?

[jay]

Yes and as you have read 3mm looks crap with rectified 600x600 but its up to you