Correct way to use tile spacers

[bobbynz]

Hi everyone i would like your input to a debate thats going on over here about the correct way to use tile spacers.
As we all know the most important part of a job is setting out and of course how to space the tiles evenly. Now when I first started my old man only ever used a string line, straightedge and a ruler.
As the years went by and thinset was being used we used tape, chalkline and square. Others used a straightedge and spacers.
In time however there has developed a split in the way these spacers are used. Some strike a chalkline and lay the tiles out dry with spacers in the corner of 4 tiles and continued on in that fashion for the rest of the floor then work their way back after all the cutting has been completed.

Some start at a squared up chalkline junction and start fixing using spacers only, set into the corners of 4 tiles etc.........OR....
They will place the spacers between each tile sticking up like a cross and when the adhesive has set go back and remove the spacers.
these 2 methods can be used both on floors and walls
My question is which way do you use the spacers?
I was always taught to stick them in and remove later. But recently i've been associating with a group of tilers that tend to use the "leave them in the joint" method.
The problem i have with leaving them in is that, most grouts are flexible which can also mean they are compressible, so when there is some expansion within the floor, both a well placed expansion joint and the grout joints can take the very slight movement across the entire floor.
But if the hard plastic spacers are left in then there is no room for movement between each tile. Would this be a potential problem?
And what about walls? I was told once by a construction site manager that if the spacers are left in wall tiles then the same problem exists, no room for movement especially if the walls are full stud height and much more if on a large commercial site as the one we were on.
Oh and would a well placed expansion joint mean that the "leave them in" method would be ok?
Imo I think with the advent of large and very large format tiles, this matter should be resolved for anyone who is in two minds over this. Do you think so?
Or am i just rocking the boat for nothing?

[suave]

ave not been tiling long m8,take them out use again,leaving them in would cause weak spots imo

[doug boardley]

I take them out bobby

[jolly fix]

i take them out too.

[Mike]

due to the bevel on most tiles i put them in one end only (with 3 ends protruding) this way ensures an even joint obviously i take them out before grouting

[jay]

Hi everyone i would like your input to a debate thats going on over here about the correct way to use tile spacers.
As we all know the most important part of a job is setting out and of course how to space the tiles evenly. Now when I first started my old man only ever used a string line, straightedge and a ruler.
As the years went by and thinset was being used we used tape, chalkline and square. Others used a straightedge and spacers.
In time however there has developed a split in the way these spacers are used. Some strike a chalkline and lay the tiles out dry with spacers in the corner of 4 tiles and continued on in that fashion for the rest of the floor then work their way back after all the cutting has been completed.

Some start at a squared up chalkline junction and start fixing using spacers only, set into the corners of 4 tiles etc.........OR....
They will place the spacers between each tile sticking up like a cross and when the adhesive has set go back and remove the spacers.
these 2 methods can be used both on floors and walls
My question is which way do you use the spacers?
I was always taught to stick them in and remove later. But recently i've been associating with a group of tilers that tend to use the "leave them in the joint" method.
The problem i have with leaving them in is that, most grouts are flexible which can also mean they are compressible, so when there is some expansion within the floor, both a well placed expansion joint and the grout joints can take the very slight movement across the entire floor.
But if the hard plastic spacers are left in then there is no room for movement between each tile. Would this be a potential problem?
And what about walls? I was told once by a construction site manager that if the spacers are left in wall tiles then the same problem exists, no room for movement especially if the walls are full stud height and much more if on a large commercial site as the one we were on.
Oh and would a well placed expansion joint mean that the "leave them in" method would be ok?
Imo I think with the advent of large and very large format tiles, this matter should be resolved for anyone who is in two minds over this. Do you think so?
Or am i just rocking the boat for nothing?

Might be worth checking the building standards over there

[timeless john]

At £2 per job and 2 jobs per week for 1 person that's £200 per year to claim back for materials on your Tax return at 40% that's £80-00 less Tax!
I'd rather have the best part of the £200 to spend on my holiday - so I pull them out!
The additional time it takes is no more than the time spent removing those pegs not pushed in far enough.
As far as the expansion issue goes - when tiles used to be self spacing in the early 70's and had lugs on all 4 sides, I never encountered any movement problems.
However you have a raised a valid question and one I can only answer by saying - you are a sad bunch of Kiwis

[Bri]

Take them out after fixing. It's rare to find tiles that are all uniform in size so small adjustments have to be made throughout fixing, this isn't really possible by placing a cross in the tile junctions.


Sent via Tapatalk for iPhone

[bobbynz]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I have always taken them out myself especially with walls and reuse them again.
Its just these guys i have worked with recently all leave them in and i've had this out with them before,(mind you they cant help it i suppose, a bunch of dirty little sigma users they are) and every now and again i bring it up again.
Its just that i've noticed from most of the pics on tf you guys normally take them out and wondered if there was a technical reason why you do it or were just being a bunch of tighta..es.
i know what you mean about leaving them in method if the tile sizes vary and this happened only once but reminded me why i didnt do it in the first place. Although i have to say the quality of tiles in NZ are absolutely awsome IF you get high quality tiles from a reputable Tile company.
I know in the past we have layed little 150mm (6inch) with the spacer lugs and you are right, no probs. But with the changeable substrates with large format tiles i'm not sure if you could compare the two situations and perhaps there might be some truth to what i was told about expansion.
We dont have many standards of our own Jay, as we use all of the Oz standards. I dont think anyone has really approached this subject on a technical level and i suppose we are all left to do what we have been taught, know and use.
the general consensus is to remove them for i guess any number of reasons.
Myself well, my days on the tools are over but if somebody wants to know what to do, I think i will be telling them to remove them...safer option i think

[bobbynz]

Hi guys, i just found this refers to problems associated with leaving spacers in wall tiles PERMANANTLY EMBEDDED SPACERS.pdf
And may have found a standard for spacers in general watch this space
mentioned earlier this year anyone tried Tilejax spacers?

[andy allen]

never use spacers on floor tiles, just a stright edge, and my mince pies, for walls, i use pegs, and take them out and reuse them..

[Dave]

I face space as well... rack of eye on floors unless rectified and tighter joints..

[tommyzooom]

Never used a spacer on floors,
On walls I use pegs or crosses, always pull them out. I've seen a few rooms tiled with the old tiles with lugs on that have bellied in the middle

[Phil Hobson]

Rack o'th eye for me on floors, wedges on walls, take up any discrepancy in tile size

[Stewart]

As most of my work is rectified porcelain I use spacers on the face including floors, but with any other type of floor tile I do it by eye and a tape measure.....


Created on iPhone.....

[bobbynz]

Most of our clients over here prefer a minimum size joint about 1.5mm to 3mm max. I prefer to strike a chalk line and run a straightedge square to that then run in any direction using spacers to keep it all square and straight. With large format tiles you dont have too many spacers to pull out.