Stone floor ruined

[Ajax123]

Been to see the most beautiful limestone floor today laid over gyvlon screed. 40k worth of limestone throughout two floors of a large new build house. Really lovely ob. Unfortunately the reason i went to see it is because the tiles had begun to fail and were moving on the screed. The tiler had done a cracking job on the prep and all was done really well so i was surprised to get the call. When we lifted a tile the g-mat uncoupling membrane came apart with the platic part stuck firm to the bottom of the adhesive on the tile and the fabric part stuck fast to the adhesive on the screed. There was no sign of any problem other than this.

I know there were a few threads started some while ago abut problems with this mat. Is there anyone who can say if this problem is characteristic of those problems. There was a lovely crackiling noise like walking on crisp bags when walking on some of the tiles.

Also what was the resolution been as it would be lovely if there was some sort of resin injection system available to pump under the tiles to restick everything. I fear it will all have to come up which would be a crying shame.

Hate it when things go wrong like this

[Stewart]

G mat were one of the major player's regarding failure's, but as far as I'm aware, they are not accepting any responsibility and have pulled the product. Lot's of old stock still for sale at very cheep prices.

Dural are the only one's that I know of that are fixing or compensating for failure's of their product and have completely redesigned it.


Created on iPhone.....

[Phil Hobson]

Hi Alan, thank god I have not had a failure yet, but your description sounds spot on, going off the cases I have heard of.

As Stewart says for the rest.

[Sir Ramic]

Its about time the people who are having these issues got together and with strength of numbers contacted G-Mat about this....its not good enough to sell such a product without a back up...or if they say its an installer error , then say so !

[Phil Hobson]

Another thing Neale, is Gmat have changed their spec to the same as the new Dural. At least Dural held their hands up. We should all stick together on this, I used a lot of Gmat last year and am dreading getting a call.

[Sir Ramic]

I would be interested to know G-Mats words on such failures. Surely if it is as Alan has seen then they cant blame anyone but the product ?

[deanotile]

12102011197.jpg
Gmat are now saying the new mat is out of stock and there is a supply problem and that is why they changed the mat in the first place. the person I spoke to said the only problems they had with Gmat where all down to fixer error.

[Bri]

12102011197.jpg
Gmat are now saying the new mat is out of stock and there is a supply problem and that is why they changed the mat in the first place. the person I spoke to said the only problems they had with Gmat where all down to fixer error.

Another company not prepared to stand up and be counted. If the fleece has debonded from the membrane how can that possibly be fixer error???? That's the one part of the process the fixer has nothing to do with!!! There are bound to be more failures unfortunately so maybe eventually they will have to do the decent thing and admit the mat is at fault.

[garythetiler]

good thread Alan I know of at least 3 jobs that have failed on the old g-mat talking to some contacts within the resin flooring industry it has been suggested that the mat may be failing due to the glue that the fleece was stuck with has been changed from a P.U based adhesive to a modified silicone based adhesive to comply with the EU voc regulations but this is just speculation, my contacts have suggested that 2 samples of the mat could be tested at Oxford Brookes university at their gas chromatography laboratory see exactly what its made from and if it has been changed during the period of when the failures started to arise ,I sure that with such a massive amount of money involved and some seriously wealthy customers involved that there will be court cases coming.

[garythetiler]

[QUOTE=deanotile;554149] 12102011197.jpg
Gmat are now saying the new mat is out of stock and there is a supply problem and that is why they changed the mat in the first place. the person I spoke to said the only problems they had with Gmat where all down to fixer error.[/QUOTE) This is a typical answer from when a company wants to side step a product failure they try to blame the installer knowing that most installers dont want the hassle of taking them to court and dont want their reputations damaged by upset customers , perhaps we should start a thread where by you can record where and when you bought the products and photos of the failure and shame them into admitting there is a problem

[deanotile]

i think we sould all go to watchdog

[Phil Hobson]

I agree we need to document jobs to cover our own reputations, I think it is scandalous that we as pro's have been recommending these products in good faith, thinking we are looking out for the customers best interest. Only to be told it is our fault, I have followed the installation instructions to the letter, as I'm sure we all have. I hope this issue is resolved by the people who are responsible.

Not the fixers..........

[Sir Ramic]

So what was the installers error ??? Wearing the wrong type of socks on the day of laying or drinking coffee instead of tea ? Smacks of BS to me.....and I dont mean British Standards !

"Yeah buy our stuff but dont talk to us when it fails "

[Dave]

I had a failure with the old Dural style mat ( same as G-mat).. Dural promptly came out and sorted the problem with an injection system..

They are as far as i know the only comp who sold the older style mat that are taking responsibility .... a few comps sold/sell the older style mat.

[Ajax123]

I had a failure with the old Dural style mat ( same as G-mat).. Dural promptly came out and sorted the problem with an injection system..

They are as far as i know the only comp who sold the older style mat that are taking responsibility .... a few comps sold/sell the older style mat.

If you have any details of the resin injction they did i would be really interested dave.

This oneis deffo not installer error.

[Dave]

I have no details Al... they keep it very close to their chests.. only dural repair and they do not want others to see what is used..?? but it works..

[Tabby Cranks]

But it would stop becoming a decoupler though I suppose.
If I'd spent £40k on a floor, I'd get it independantly tested, and make Gmat fork out for a relay.

[Dave]

But it would stop becoming a decoupler though I suppose.
If I'd spent £40k on a floor, I'd get it independantly tested, and make Gmat fork out for a relay.

No.. the resin does not fully set... hence allows for movement but no crunching.

[Tabby Cranks]

No.. the resin does not fully set... hence allows for movement but no crunching.

Cool.
I'd still try and get gmat to pay.

[Dave]

Cool.
I'd still try and get gmat to pay.

Only Dural Inject.. so ye.. G-mat (Genesis) have to inspect..

[deanotile]

the first chap i spoke to said it is an uncoupling mat it is supposed to do that

[Ajax123]

Fortunately this customer is the md of a major contracting company and is used to dealing with issues like this. Makes it no more pallatable but at least he has a chance unlike vsome of the smaller domestic customers i know.

[gubbins]

Fortunately this customer is the md of a major contracting company and is used to dealing with issues like this. Makes it no more pallatable but at least he has a chance unlike vsome of the smaller domestic customers i know.

i hope youre not including me in that Ajax <inserts emoticon>

So much to update on my own floor failing thread but will have to wait a couple of days till we get some results back from the mapei lab and I can put up some photos (but in v short patches of adhesive under the lifted (broken up) tile appeared damp, lots of it had separated cleanly from the tile pieces, PVA primer had lifted off screed and didnt look healthy....not a good outlook all in all....but i wonder if this secret resin injection is the same as whats been pushed onto me by my contractor ie gorilla glue ),

thanks for all your help again ajax (and the other chaps)you're all stars

[Sir Ramic]

i hope youre not including me in that ajax <inserts emoticon>

so much to update on my own floor failing thread but will have to wait a couple of days till we get some results back from the mapei lab and i can put up some photos (but in v short patches of adhesive under the lifted (broken up) tile appeared damp, lots of it had separated cleanly from the tile pieces, pva primer had lifted off screed and didnt look healthy....not a good outlook all in all....but i wonder if this secret resin injection is the same as whats been pushed onto me by my contractor ie gorilla glue ),

thanks for all your help again ajax (and the other chaps)you're all stars

pva ???????

[whitebeam]

[Gall.B]

Seen the Genesis guys at a recent trade show, they looked liked they wanted to run for the door when questioned about the G-MAT and claimed to know nothing about it or why they didnt have any with them although they had every othe genesis product including flooring products at a tile trade show?????? not good.

Are all these membranes not produced in the sane factory? and if so why did dural cough up?

When was the floor layed Alan and where was the matt purchased?

[Gall.B]

[QUOTE=gubbins;554380]i hope youre not including me in that Ajax <inserts emoticon>

So much to update on my own floor failing thread but will have to wait a couple of days till we get some results back from the mapei lab and I can put up some photos (but in v short patches of adhesive under the lifted (broken up) tile appeared damp, lots of it had separated cleanly from the tile pieces, PVA primer had lifted off screed and didnt look healthy....


Oh dear not PVA

[Marcusko89]

Shame,,
I advise using ditra mat , never had any problems with it.

[gubbins]

pva ???????

Unfortunately so.

Main contractor (builder developer) & subcontractor (tiler) now trying the line that PVA was used because no primer was specified or supplied by myself or tiling supplier!!

Despite it being written clearly on every bag of Mapei keraquik (adhesive agreed upon between all parties beforehand) and us agreeing beforehand for the bathrooms they've fitted during the same project that they were to provide the appropriate materials and i'll pay for them. Tiler reckons its not a requisite for him to know product suitability, or flag up any conflicts as he just provides the labour. Do they genuinely think that us customers are that gullible????

This one will run and run...

[Dave]

Tiler reckons its not a requisite for him to know product suitability, or flag up any conflicts as he just provides the labour.

Is he having a laff..?

Of course it is up to the fixer to determine suitability, he/she is the one who is offering a guarantee that their work will stay put ffs..

Never heard such tosh in all my life..