Please Help a Frustrated DIYer

[shneld]

Hello everyone.

I would really really appreciate some pointers/help please.

I'm tiling my bathroom with 600x300mm tiles, about 10mm thick, for a start, I don't think I have chosen the best tiles to use for my first attempt?

I have done one wall, all is ok.

I have started to tile the adjoining wall, problem is the walls are not plumb, surprise surprise

As I have worked my way up the wall, the gap between the two wall/tiles is getting bigger and bigger (too small to get a tile in but big enough not to be covered up by the silicone)

I set out the tiles, so as to avoid awkward cuts, I have laid them in a 'brick wall' fashion.

I don't see how I can set the tiles out on the second adjoining wall to avoid silly cuts without loosing the symmetry of the 'brick wall' idea.

I hope I have explained myself and look forward to any help

Thanks

Lee

[Sir Ramic]

Ok before you go any further, please dont tell me you are using ready mixed adhesive on skimmed wall with tiles that big ?

[Bri]

I think I know where you are coming from. Have you tried to come out of a corner with a whole tile? A couple of pictures may help us solve your problem.

[whitebeam]

Did you work the tiles out to start from the corner..

[chille]

oh dear sounds like a mistake in setting out the brick bond pattern, have you got ant pictures or dimensions of the walls so we can get a better idea?

[peteablard]

As above, you should always cut into the walls to avoid this problem

[shneld]

Ok before you go any further, please dont tell me you are using ready mixed adhesive on skimmed wall with tiles that big ?

No I'm using Mapie powdered adhesive. I did some reading on here and decided not to use tubbed.

I have attached a quick sketch to help illustrate my problem. Unfortunately I cant take any pics at the mo.

The first wall worked out well, as you can see. This is drawn roughly to scale.

[Sir Ramic]

Good man for taking note but sadly it looks as though you have fallen into the full tile trap. While it seems great , it only works if all walls are perfectly plumb.

[Bri]

The problem is trying to come out of the corner with a whole tile, unless the walls are dead plumb (they rarely are) you will encounter this sort of issue. If you had come out of the corner with 1/4 and a 3/4 tile you would have had the 1/4 tile extra to help overcome this issue. As a rule of thumb,never come out of a corner with a whole tile.

[shneld]

The problem is trying to come out of the corner with a whole tile, unless the walls are dead plumb (they rarely are) you will encounter this sort of issue. If you had come out of the corner with 1/4 and a 3/4 tile you would have had the 1/4 tile extra to help overcome this issue. As a rule of thumb,never come out of a corner with a whole tile.

Thanks for the help everyone!

Bri, so are you saying there is no way to maintain the symmetry, in my case, and I will have to do as you say.
Fortunately the second wall I have removed the tiles

Anyone cover the St Helens area and fancy some work?

[whitebeam]

Your trying to get a full tile to the corner, from the top of the wall where it leans back furthest measure 580mm out from the corner, then use a level for a vertical line..then start from there but check the setting out to the other corner so you don't end up in the same position..

[shneld]

As above, you should always cut into the walls to avoid this problem

In other words, don't start with a full tile?

[davemul]

Can any pro's offer a guide to setting out a brick bond pattern?

[Sir Ramic]

In other words, don't start with a full tile?

Only if you are 100% certain your walls are bang on.

[shneld]

Only if you are 100% certain your walls are bang on.

Cheers.

Another problem I have found, I used a batten at the bottom of the wall to give me a straight edge and to support the tiles.

I have used a mosaic boarder tile half way up. Problem, is the tiles above the boarder are not very well supported and tend to sag sometime, as the boarder tile is a mosaic type and a bit flimsy.

How would you overcome this issue?

[whitebeam]

This method with cut tiles and leave the mosaic until lastWork Picture 014.jpg

[Mike]

you need to make sure that the mosaics are fixed solid before tiling on top of them and you may be able to use spacers between them too

[Sir Ramic]

Either go up and place the border and leave to set or leave a gap for the border and set another batten to hold the tiles above.

[shneld]

This method with cut tiles and leave the mosaic until last

I think I'll go with this method

you need to make sure that the mosaics are fixed solid before tiling on top of them and you may be able to use spacers between them too

The first wall I used spacers, it worked to an extent, but not great

Either go up and place the border and leave to set or leave a gap for the border and set another batten to hold the tiles above.

Another batten did pop into my mind, wasn't sure if there was a better way.

Once again thanks to all. Was getting extremely wound up today.

[shneld]

One last question please

What is the maximum depth of adhesive bed I can use.

The wall is a brick wall with sand & cement render, skimmed over.

I ask as there are some big dips in the surface of the wall, and I had a few lips on the first wall.

[Sir Ramic]

It really depends on what the adhesive manufacturer states on the bag.

[shneld]

It really depends on what the adhesive manufacturer states on the bag.

ok thanks.

Sorry just thought of another problem I came across and have yet to get around.

If you take a wall with an opening for a door, how do you ensure you maintain the same level as you go to the other side of the opening, in other words how do I make sure the batten is exactly at the right hieght.

If the door frame wasn't in place it would be ok as I could just put the level flat up against the wall.

[user123]

shneld, I must admit, I am reading this thread with frustration - just out of interest, as you are a keen diy er and I assume you know your limitations, did it not occur to you to employ one of the professional tilers who are helping you on here or other professionals on this forum to do this work which is after all a proper skilled trade? It just seems a shame that your home would not get the professional treatment it deserves - I am a keen DIYer myself and totally understand the joy of it, but tiling, with all the setting out and adhesive questions, etc, really it should be a job for people who have chosen this is a career to be proud of, don't you agree? This is not a personal attack by any means, just a sadness at the mis-comprehension by the public who do not understand what a wonderful skill good tiling is and how difficult it is to get it right.

[shneld]

I agree with what your saying, it truly is a skill, really is.

This is my first house, still living with the parents, currently renovating it.

I cant afford to pay someone

I have the up most respect for tiles, to be able to produce a high quality finish and not taking ages to do it or make a mess everywhere lol

The likes of tilers, plumbers, plasterers, not so much electricians, I am one, I can watch all day long as I find it fascinating watching a skilled tradesman/person at work

[whitebeam]

The answer to your question is a datum line around the room, I use a laser which dos'nt let a door frame become an obstacle...use your level onto the architrave of the door frame and do pencil marks which should follow onto the wall..around the the whole room that is.

[pjc]

One last question please What is the maximum depth of adhesive bed I can use.The wall is a brick wall with sand & cement render, skimmed over.I ask as there are some big dips in the surface of the wall, and I had a few lips on the first wall.

Most are only 6mm deep but as said most should tell on the bag Mapie I am not sure as I found it hard to find there info on there web site in fact I couldn't in there tec specs

[adventureboy]

shneld, I must admit, I am reading this thread with frustration - just out of interest, as you are a keen diy er and I assume you know your limitations, did it not occur to you to employ one of the professional tilers who are helping you on here or other professionals on this forum to do this work which is after all a proper skilled trade? It just seems a shame that your home would not get the professional treatment it deserves - I am a keen DIYer myself and totally understand the joy of it, but tiling, with all the setting out and adhesive questions, etc, really it should be a job for people who have chosen this is a career to be proud of, don't you agree? This is not a personal attack by any means, just a sadness at the mis-comprehension by the public who do not understand what a wonderful skill good tiling is and how difficult it is to get it right.

I ripped all my old kitchen back splash last year, put in some new bits of plaster board where needed to get the surface nice for re-tiling again and got myself some nice tiles, an electric wet tile cutter, adhesive and grout, spacers and a float, sponge la de da. And I spent many hours on here reading the 'do's and don'ts'. Couldn't wait to get started on my new shiny tiles...after all, what could go wrong? answer, everything!
After placing the tenth tile on and wasting 3 tiles trying to cut round a plug socket, and some effing and blinding, I just had a brain-wave. Sod it.
I found a local wall tiler. I watched in awe as I put the kettle on and turned round to see he had over half a dozen tiles up already before it had even boiled. the back splash traverses round two windows, behind the cooker, around half a dozen sockets etc. He was so quick and skilled the way he cut round the windows and put the trims in. Came back and grouted next day and it was the cleanest and neatest finish I could imagine. Black tiles with white grout as well which would show up mistakes easily.
As my missus said to me 'it wouldn't have cost you so much if you hadn't wasted all your money on that tile cutter and the other stuff, would it?'

[user123]

THANK YOU!! Adventure boy, what a lovely honest post, and not one we read on here often. I am SO glad you are now happy with the tiling in your house, saved yourself so much more possible aggro and helped a professional earn his living!

I hope many many guests who come on here thinking that tiling is easy and can be done by anyone, will read this and think again. I have a HUGE smile across my face here

[ROBSON MCGREGOR]

This is not a personal attack by any means, just a sadness at the mis-comprehension by the public who do not understand what a wonderful skill good tiling is and how difficult it is to get it right.

The amount of people that have told me "tilings easy, you just stick them on the wall". If only this was true.
I totally agree there is a mis-comprehension from the general public about how skilled a job tiling is, i only wish that more people would come on a forum like this & read up about what can go wrong.

[shneld]

The amount of people that have told me "tilings easy, you just stick them on the wall". If only this was true.
I totally agree there is a mis-comprehension from the general public about how skilled a job tiling is, i only wish that more people would come on a forum like this & read up about what can go wrong.

Same with most things isn't it, plumbing, wiring etc

Nothing is as easy as it first seems.