Had bathroom refit two years ago, now tiles are cracking

[Foxtrot Oscar]

Hi guys

I found this forum via UK Plumbers while I was re-plumbing my shower pump (that's a slightly different story).

Two years ago, we paid xxx Ltd. of Redditch several thousand pounds to have our bathroom refitted, i.e. they ripped out the old suite, re-plumbed everything and tiled. There were two builders, a plasterer, an electrician (though the pump was under the bath and connected to a normal socket in the airing cupboard, not sure how correct this is), and a tiler.

Quite a few bodges are slowly but surely coming to light and causing problems, one of which is that our shower pump let go but Grundfos wouldn't replace it as the installer a) hadn't kept the receipt and b) hadn't installed it according to the manufacturer's guidelines.

Anyway the latest is that the tiles have started cracking, quite badly in places, and I was hoping for your opinion on what the problem was and what steps I need to take to stop more cracking please?

Here are some pics:







Aside from the obvious cracks, there are several hairline cracks that are hard to make out from the photos, but that seem to run along the seams of the boards?

I've told the builders about the problem, he said he'd come round and take a look when he'd finished his current job. That was almost a month ago, so I don't hold out much help for any resolution from the builder.

Has he done this correctly and if not, what are my options (if any) for recourse after this period of time?

Many thanks for any advice!

[Sir Ramic]

Laid direct to chipboard ??? Problem found !

[jay]

oh dear

nice spot Neil

[Stewart]

Looks like the tiles are installed directly onto the chipboard. If the substrate is chipboard, then there should be at least 15 mm ply or 6 mm cement board if there is no deflection on in the floor.

[Foxtrot Oscar]

Thanks guys, so that's another no-no I've uncovered. Now I'm just worried it's only a matter of time before the wall tiles start peeling off, as I'd guess he hasn't bothered doing these properly either.

Re-boarding with ply would mean at the very least re-tiling up to the bath, as the bath would have to be raised in order to accommodate the extra height of the ply.

What would you do if after two years a customer contacted you about this? Do I have any recourse? What should I do if he ignores my requests?

[Sir Ramic]

Fair play to the builder if he does sort it out but I wouldn't hold my breath.
If you cant overboard then the best way would be to remove the tiles on the foor, the chipboard, brace the joists so as to add strength and then board with 18mm WBP ply ( of good quality not the cheap stuff) .
Seal the back and sides of the ply. Glue and screw the ply and use as few joints as possible.
Wood will always be susceptible to movement when temperatures and moisture affect it . That is why its always better to use a backer board.

Adhesive manufacturers will say you can tile direct to chipboard but if the chipboard moves too much or deflects, or hasn't been fixed correctly in accordance to their specifications then they wont want to know either.

[Foxtrot Oscar]

Ouch. That sounds like a lot of work. I think we'll make do until we move house and replace the fractured tiles at the last minute. We're planning to move in a year or two so I'm not sure the hassle and expense is worth it for us.

Incidentally why is it best to seal the back of the ply? I guess that you don't seal the front as the adhesive won't bond, but why seal the back? Surely it's not really exposed to much moisture on the underside?

Thanks all.

[jay]

i think you may want to have a good look around your bathroom as if i am reading this right .you have had a small flood or leak.well chipboard does not like water at all and takes on a weatbix (vitabrix) formation were it can change shape over a period of time you need to address the problem and soon . you will also notice a smell ,
I dont think badging it up at the last minute to flog on to some unsuspecting buyer is very fair not something i would do

my opinion that would be a very low thing to do

[kilty55]

as above direct to chipboard..quite often lasts a year or two or 3 even then starts crackign etc

unnaceptable and i hope you get it sorted

[kilty55]

ahhhhhh,forget my answer

foxtrot you came here looking for advice how to fix a bodge job someone has done for you

then you claim your going to bodge it again and sell your property onto some unsuspecting buyer...your just as bad as the team who fitted for you

good luck

[Foxtrot Oscar]

I don't have the time or the money to fix this with a newborn imminent and having had to just fix the shower pump installation that they also bodged.

Before (15mm pipe for 2 bar shower, hot and cold teed off existing supply to taps, etc...):





After (dedicated 22mm feeds, pump relocated to prime position):



So enough of the witch hunt, I don't think it's fair to say I'm just as bad. I was genuinely looking to resolve it but after realising how much work it will take, I'm less inclined to do so.

The buyer of my house will be no worse off than I am, in fact they'll be better as they'll have uncracked tiles for a couple of years.

[kilty55]

foxtrot do not try and fob this off as a witch hunt

we give good advice here to help people,we are not going to give you advice on how to rip someone else off.you still want to fob this off to an unsuspecting buyer and in my eyes you are as bad as the bodgers who did your job

[jay]

Can someone close this thread ive read enough thanks

[Foxtrot Oscar]

Tilers' union here I see. *Sigh*

It beggars belief to read people saying I'm as bad as them. Not everything is black and white, you're viewing this through a simpleton's eyes.

Firstly I am not as bad as I am not the pro that's paid to do it right, I am an amateur DIYer at best.

And why on earth must the thread be closed just because you disagree jay? Are you really that precious? Looking back it might not be a good idea to do what I suggested, I see that, but is it not enough just to disagree rather than call for the thread to be closed? You're being far too precious about this.

Perhaps jay you'd like to give me £600 to pay a pro to do the job, just so you feel better about whoever moves into my house next? As I do not have £600 lying around.

[jay]

Tilers' union here I see. *Sigh*
It beggars belief to read people saying I'm as bad as them. Not everything is black and white, you're viewing this through a simpleton's eyes.
Firstly I am not as bad as I am not the pro that's paid to do it right, I am an amateur DIYer at best.

tile union get a life
you come on here for advice
then say you are going to bodge the job and flog it off to someone else
whats the difference between you and the cowboy you paid to do the job originally

as far as i can see you both are trying to make money at someone else's expense

time to grow up and stand by what you do in life

[Foxtrot Oscar]

I think it's you that needs to get a life, calling for a thread to be closed just because you disagree with one of my options. Drama queen or what mate.

Besides I didn't day I was going to for sure, I just put it out there as an option. Anyway step one is get the builder round and listen to all his excuses, then I'll take it from there, bearing in mind jay and all his sensitivities.

[jay]

Foxtrot tell me what do you do for a living

[Foxtrot Oscar]

You'll probably laugh.

Accountant. All my money is going into my mortgage before the rates rise again, it's more that I don't feel I should have to pay for the job to be done again when I've already paid once only two years ago.

Is it not possible that replacing the cracked tiles will solve the problem, as the chipboard might have undergone its movement and settled down now? If I replace them now and they crack before I move house in the next two years, then I can get it done properly before I leave.

[jay]

yes i did laugh
you will find your chipboard is knackered and lost some of its strength
so a quick fix is just that

[Foxtrot Oscar]

Gonna get on the blower to the home insurance people and see where I stand with them. I'm going to do my best not to pay for this mess, even if it means take 'em to a small claims court.

[Brinkley]

btw the reason for priming ply to the back and edges is to help stop water ingress

[GirlRacerRed]

Whilst it is unfortunate that you feel you have been diddled Foxtrot Oscar, the lads on here try their hardest to provide the best advice from the specialist knowledge they have acquired over the years of participating in their trade and by sharing and gaining knowledge with other tradespeople and manufacturers/experts. It will not sit well with the members here that you are considering fixing your tiling issues temporarily until you sell your house. Whilst we understand that money is tight for everybody right now, we do advocate on here that you attempt to repair the poor workmanship correctly. You could even use this as a selling point when you come to sell your house.

We cannot however tell you what to do, we can merely advise to the best of our abilities over an internet forum and hope that you understand the advice that is being given is being given genuinely and honestly.

I am now going to close this thread as I do not wish this to become a personal slanging match between anybody. I would also like to remind all members to review the forum rules regarding conduct whilst a member of this forum.

Thanks
GRR