Help!: Removal of grout on big job

[alexc1989]

Hi every1 wondering if anyone can help me, ive tiled a 125 meter floor in porcelain 600x600 with 2ml joints and the grout needs to be redone as it is cracking everywhere. Does any1 know of an easy way of raking the grout out? The problem i have is that it is a clothes shop and is still trading so i am going in on nights so dust needs to be kept to a minimum. Is there any decent tool out there that makes this job easier?

[Knackered Knees]

Very difficult, especially against porcelain, and small joints. You need to work out what is causing the cracking of the grout in the first place, Deflection perhaps? or other movement? Did you place any expansion joins over the 125m2 floor?

For tight joints and the 'odd' tile removal or repair I've used a dremel tool with a very fine tungsten burr, but for such a large area it would take you a very very long time.

[Sir Ramic]

As above, you need to find out why its cracking. It could be the wrong grout has been used or incorrectly mixed etc but there is no point regrouting for it to happen again.

The quickest way IMO would be a tile saw and grout removal wheel, both available from Tradetiler.com Home
TradeTiler.Ltd SAW

TradeTiler.Ltd WHEEL

You will of course need water to keep down the dust and a wet/dry vac to clean up with.

[nybor62]

sounds a night mare, did you use flexy grout ,

[alexc1989]

Whats happened is the client has supplied adhesive and grout which is "economical" and not flexible. We put a concern in about using this and were told to just do it. Now we are back to sort it out hopefully this flexible grout will work but if not it looks like taking the whole floor up and doing it again.
The floor is plywood with vinyl tiles and we have gone over with ditra-mat.

[TF Ed]

not a nice job, i hate regrouting..
dust is a night mare. what ever system you use, invest in a good respirator!
best of luck
ed

[akinsontiles]

Have you consider using mapei's silicone in some of the joints to match the colouor you need? I hope you are getting paid for this work.

[alexc1989]

Havent thought of silocone yet but it seems like a good idea, better than taking the whole floor up. Hardest thing is raking the grout out we had last night doing it and only manged 20meters. Going back in tonight to see if it has worked. If not we will look at using silocone. And we have to go 50/50 on the repair work as the client says we are at fault.

[Knackered Knees]

A 50/50 split would not be acceptable if it were my own reputation as a tiler, by accepting this deal you have accepted part of the responsibility, and why should that be, you didn't supply the materials. The clients were advised by you that the materials being supplied may be sub standard and may well not be the best choice. In cases like this, and if it happens in the future you need to protect yourself from recourse. When I'm asked to fix under these circumstances I have paperwork saying 'SIGN HERE!' and frees me from liability. Watch the SLY BUGGERS! run for cover when this bit of paperwork gets pulled out.

[garythetiler]

A 50/50 split would not be acceptable if it were my own reputation as a tiler, by accepting this deal you have accepted part of the responsibility, and why should that be, you didn't supply the materials. The clients were advised by you that the materials being supplied may be sub standard and may well not be the best choice. In cases like this, and if it happens in the future you need to protect yourself from recourse. When I'm asked to fix under these circumstances I have paperwork saying 'SIGN HERE!' and frees me from liability. Watch the SLY BUGGERS! run for cover when this bit of paperwork gets pulled out.

signing a disclaimer such as this wouldnt hold up in a uk court if you used materials you knew were going to fail you are at fault as because as an expert you have the right to walk away and refuse to do something you know wont last BUT as a tool to get the buggers to use the right stuff its very effective! thanks for the tip

[Knackered Knees]

signing a disclaimer such as this wouldnt hold up in a uk court if you used materials you knew were going to fail you are at fault as because as an expert you have the right to walk away and refuse to do something you know wont last BUT as a tool to get the buggers to use the right stuff its very effective! thanks for the tip

Very true Gaz, and I'm not familar with UK laws, being from Oz. In cases like these though the 'Wise' choice for me if the clients insisted against my 'Expert' advice, would be to 'Walk away and go Hungry' rather than 'Work and starve to Death'.

[alexc1989]

Oh well il learn from this 1 and get them to sign a disclaimer in future.

[Sir Ramic]

Oh well il learn from this 1 and get them to sign a disclaimer in future.

I think you misread the posts.....Disclaimers are next to useless in court.

[nybor62]

there is no way i would have settled , for any thing less than a flexy grout, and the fact that you did is really your fault ,

sorry i know its not what you want to here, good luck pal hope it all works out , chin up

[alexc1989]

Yes but it will make them listen to the tilers advice instead of saying just get on with it. If not just walk away.

[enduro]

I use one of these. Dave at tradetiler sells them also a Dewalt version.26088290.jpg Excellent for grout removal.

[Gall.B]

Re-grouted 3000m2 using a dewalt cordless circular saw with a diamond wheel an big vac attatched 2 the saw had 2 buy a spindel adapter £20 for the saw then stanley the edges also 600x6oo porcelain night shift house of frasers between 3 of us we were doing 150m2 easy no dust minimal mess

[kilty55]

what grout are you planning on using to re grout this with,and are you having to supply it?

im not sure this will work if you have used non flexi adheive however try bal non flex grout with gt1 admix might be strong enought o save your bacon as long as the tiles are not loose

[Gall.B]

Agree with above bal wj with a gt1 admix doesnt get any stronger than that

[alexc1989]

We are using mapei with an aditve. Have done 100 meters in 2 nights using angl grinder and wet sponge and the grout has held no cracking.The tiles arent loose it is the floor underneath which the client was also told before the start of the job but said to get on with it because they didnt want another week adding on the job. Yes we are suplying the grout but hasnt used much being 2ml joints. Have used the bal with gt1 admix before i should have thought of using that. Just have to see if this works.

[alexc1989]

Why did you have to re-grout? 3000 meters is a lot of work!

[Gall.B]

had to regrout it twice m8, we were subd 2 a german firm the adhesive was 2 part flex onto ditra matt the grout on the job was in german but we recognised it as sontex kitchen grout unbloody real but told 2 carry on the grout turned to dust as predicted, easy enough to remove. Next up was mapei silver grey to light for a heavy trafficed floor & it struggled 2 cope with movement in some places so as the floor space ran over 3 buildings up 2 300 years old lastly it was done in bal with admix, then same again in the dublin store. This is what happens when flooring companys take on big ceramic work.

[alexc1989]

Hope u got paid for that! Makes me feel better that this is only 125m2 but dont fancy doing it again if this mapei doesnt work.

[advancetiling]

Just out of interest,how come you went with 2mm joints and not the recommended 3mm(less grout to use?)

[Gall.B]

Hope u got paid for that! Makes me feel better that this is only 125m2 but dont fancy doing it again if this mapei doesnt work.

Yeah got paid no probs was between the client & the flooring company we were subd to frasers paid for the second re grout was told it cost 20,000 in total between security leccy materials and wages

you should be fine with the admix bud.

[Aspesim]

At last a post I can reply too!!

I'm not a tiler or a builder or anything like that but my advice would be to to invest in a tool called the Exakt Saw (I have the EC320 model which is the brownish colour casing, this one has been improved over the others, which why its sligtly more expensive).


I used this tool last night to channel out a wall for cabling and had the minimalist amount of dust to clean up afterwards thanks to the extractor connection and didn't even need to wear a mask!

Hope this helps
Simon.

[pjc]

if you didn't supply the materials you cant be responsible for them but if you fixed to a floor that was not suitable to receive tiles you have a problem what was the timber and how was it fixed ?

[tilerjason]

flexi adhesive and grout everytime , gives you piece of mind