Help!: Dark patches appearing on limestone floor tiles after laying and sealing

[jburnett]

Hi all,

I'm really hoping you can give me some advice.

I've just had my kitchen floor tiled in light grey Jura limestone tiles.
The tiler fixed them on top of the existing ceramic tiles with Setaflex grey adhesive using the "spot" technique rather than a solid bed. Some areas where there were no ceramic tiles were levelled using a self levelling compound. In some area the tiler used white adhesive from BAL because he'd run out of grey Setaflex.

All the tiles were left for between 48 and 72 hours before a first coat of sealer called Dry Treat Damp Proof was applied.

Within a couple of hours dark patches started to appear on the surface of all the tiles, with the exception of those laid on the self-levelling compound and on the white BAL adhesive.

That was about a week ago and the patches haven't changed appearance at all since.

Are these patches ever going to fade?
Is the limestone stained forever?
Should the tiler have used white adhesive all over?

Any advice really, really welcome as neither the tiler or the supplier of the stone/adhesive seems willing to take responsibility. I'm stuck in the middle and have had to cancel the kitchen fitter in case the whole floor needs to be replaced.

Thanks all. Some photos attached.

Julian

[Stewart]

Wow.... I'm lost for words...

[whitebeam]

Your tiler should not have used the dab method,not a good method for fixing and white should have been used for the Limestone..

How thick were the dabs of adhesive.

[Dave]

Hi and welcome..

Those marks are wetting from Spot fixing the tiles.. Totally wrong installation method... they might fade but cannot guarantee that..

The tiles should have been back skimmed to give even wetting/shading tot he tiles and solid bed fixed and not spot fixed like that.

time to give your tiler a call.. State to him that he has not fixed to BS 5385 standards.

[jburnett]

Not really sure how thick they were but I guess between 6 and 12mm.

[Dave]

Any advice really, really welcome as neither the tiler or the supplier of the stone/adhesive seems willing to take responsibility.

Errr,, The tiler is fully responsible here. He is the one who did this..

[Stewart]

Firstly the tiler should not have used grey adhesive, it should have been white rapid flex. Spot fixing is not a recognised technique for tile fixing, it should have bee solid bed. I doubt very much the spots will disappear and you will probably start to have problems with the fixing of the tiles as they will start to fail. I really hate to say it, but get in touch with tiler as a re-fit is in order in my opinion.....

[Del W]

This is really bad.wrong addy, wrong fixing,all down to the tiler.remove and start again,inc ceramics if their are not 100% solid all over.

[user123]

Wow.... I'm lost for words...

Me, too ... cowboy tilers ripping people off ....

[andy allen]

im lost for words........plenty of good tilers scratching round for work, and you get muppets that havn't got a clue producing bodge jobs like this.

can i ask where you got the tiler from, was he recomened from the tile shop?

[Bri]

Can't really say alot more than has been said already, incorrect fixing method, grey adhesive instead of white, this is why you have your problem. You must call your tiler back as this is his responsibility. I hope you get a favourable outcome, all the best.

[timeless john]

- who supplied the 'tiler' or was he recommended and did you receive an Invoice.
First place will be to try and get him back or show him the pictures - hopefully he will be of the right moral conduct and admit his error.

Very Good Luck - its going to cost someone a bit of money.

[kilty55]

hi j burnett sorry but as above that job needs ripped out.......after you have taken pics and sought compenasation in fulll from mr tiler

[Brian the Tile]

oh my, cant speak im so sorry for you but im afraid there is only one solution an i think you will
know what it is by everybodys comments again so sorry

[Pebbs]

hi j burnett sorry but as above that job needs ripped out.......after you have taken pics and sought compenasation in fulll from mr tiler

I totally agree with Kilty, the floor needs to come up sooner rather than later, the tiler (and I use the term loosely) has to step up to the plate and admit that he is totally 100% at fault. Jonathan you need to jump on this post haste, do not listen to excuses, get a recorded letter off straight away, with the photographic evidence. Also state that you are giving them 3 days to respond and rectify, and if he doesnt respond start legal proceedings.

This workmanship is deplorable, I would be raising hell....(hold a minute I do that most days!).

Pebbs

[jay]

Buggered best to remove and while your at it remove the original ceramics

[spooner68]

Ouch. Not good, all excellent advice above. Be quick, be comprehensive and don't take no for an answer. The grey adhesive on its own is bad enough but DnD for a limestone floor.... There is plenty of support for you here from professionals who know what they are doing. Good luck.

Spoon

[Bolter]

~wrong adhesive
~wrong "method" (it isnt even a method, its DIY standard at best)
~incorrect substrate. It is not recommended to tile Natural Stone over old ceramic tiles. Again DIY standard, and thats being generous.

Did the tiler offer to remove the old ceramics?

[jay]

just wondering whats the substrate .timber or concrete

[Phil Hobson]

OMG as above, get the "TILER" back, spot technique never heard dot and dab called that before. This guy is trying to put a fancy name to cowboy practice. Good luck

[Mike]

just wondering whats the substrate .timber or concrete

they're laid on top of ceramics jay

[enduro]

The only good thing is he used a good sealer!!!

[Phil Hobson]

The only good thing is he used a good sealer!!!

Dry treat is good stuff

[nybor62]

disgracefull job , he should be shot at dawn

[jburnett]

Hi all,

Thanks for your really helpful advice which I will pass on to my tiler in the morning.
In fact I'll just send him a link to this thread I think.

I'll let you know how it turns out but I strongly suspect it'll involve trashing about 25sqm of beautiful jurassic limestone.

Thanks again.

[CCTiling]

These sort of jobs really annoy me!! The customer spends a fortune on the tiles and then a so called unknowledgeable tiler comes along and makes a complete hash! Went out to an estimate last week where the customer had bought Fired Earth tiles (very expensive) and it's a mess and I felt so sorry for the guy. If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it!!

[Simmo35]

In 21yrs of tiling I have never use grey adhesive on any natural stone tiles. The limestone needs to be removed. Where there is no adhesive under the stone, this is were the tiles will be weak and start to break. Dont take no for an answer these have to be removed.

[deanotile]

jburnett i am so sorry this has happed to you. unfortunately for the tiler he has made a catalog of errors and a trail to follow.
1. Tile on tile is never a good thing to do and in this case it has stopped the moisture from the adhesive going anywhere but up.
2. Grey adhesive and light porous stone is not the smartest move especially given the tile on tile.
3. sealing the tiles trapped the moisture in the tile.
4. dot and dab fixing is not a recognized method of fixing and a tiler that uses this method is ether to thick to know better or is using it to get over an uneven sub-straight instead of doing the correct preparation.

[jay]

they're laid on top of ceramics jay

yes i know that but whats the substrate under the limestone and ceramics

[Bathfix Bob]

Whatever you do, don't allow them to re tile on top of whats already there!

Seriously though, I'm lost for words, its just disgraceful.

I recently made a mistake with a floor (won't go into detail) and the customer had reason to ring up to 'report an issue'.
I admitted straight away it was my fault and went back and sorted it at the first available date.

It cost me 3 days unpaid work and about £100 worth of materials but I walked away with a clean conscience and learnt a valuable lesson.

Also my reputation remained intact.