Why have grout lines

[GaryS]

Just wondered why you need to have grout lines at all as it seems marble ect can be laid without them, I understand that floors and walls can move just wondered how they get around this with marble floors that have no visable grout lines.

[Scott]

Gary we are back to our usual conversation you and i seem to have been having a lot! Expansion and contraction

The stone cant be butted up as it expands and can pop, the grout takes up that movement which is why there are minimum grout joints for walls and floors, well thats the theory in this country but if you go abroad there are loads of countries that do it

[GaryS]

lol thats what i figured scott just wondered how they do it with those marble floors that dont have grout lines, only thing i can think of is that its a lot thicker than a standard tile

[grumpygrouter]

Most of the construction in britain is different to the countries that butt up tiles. They are primarily going onto a concrete type structure which, once has settled in with regards to climate is fairly stable I would imagine. Here in Britain, the atmospheric conditions can vary widely and as there is a large amount of timber used in the construction over here, there will be more movement, hence the BS for minimum grout joints!

[johnryan]

i learnt to tile in israel, and never saw a spacer till i came home. even ceramics are butt joint there. 80% of the work is cement work though, even the vertical work, and i think that plus no real change of temp through the year makes it ok. can't imagine there'd be any expansion/contraction due to hot cold temps. though jerusalem gets freezing in the winter, so maybe it's more to do with fixing the tiles with cement and sand.

edit; their marble, terrazzo and stone is mostly 20mm thick too.

[GaryS]

Its done in this country too grumpy as some of the excellent photos in the show us your work thread show and it does look really really good, i dont think stone expands or contracts so i guess its an issue with the floor or walls moving that can cause a problem. It looks to be very detailed work with some of these floors (i've not seen walls done like this) just looks amazing when done right and seamless.

[GaryS]

i wonder if the thickness plays a big part johnryan tile less likely to bend and pop

[johnryan]

i wonder if the thickness plays a big part johnryan tile less likely to bend and pop

i'm not sure about that, but i think you may have a point about movement, as all building over there is concrete structure with block panels, or built from stone. even their internal studwork for drywall is done with metal frames. wood is too expensive, so is rarely used for anything except doors, and a lot of them are composite materials. also floors are laid on a bed of dry sand and cement mixed as you go, then wet sand and cement on top of that. it's difficult to explain how they set the tiles, but it's very different from here.

[Scott]

This is where we need Pebbs as this is her area of expertise!

[GaryS]

lol i think it was Pebbs work i was referring to in the show us your work section and its brilliant

[johnryan]

i did this floor for my sister 2 years ago, and it's still in great shape. this was all laid on sand and cement, in her conservatory.
sheilas floor 16.jpg

however, i was taking a bit of a chance with it as i wasn't sure about working with butt joints here. she said go ahead anyway, so i put it down like this. it's cheap vietnamese marble they sell at tile giant, but it still seems to be fine now, with no problems so far.

[whitebeam]

If you ever had a problem then you would'nt have a leg to stand on.

[Scott]

Im not sure the marble would cut your legs off?

[nybor62]

i learnt to tile in israel, and never saw a spacer till i came home. even ceramics are butt joint there. 80% of the work is cement work though, even the vertical work, and i think that plus no real change of temp through the year makes it ok. can't imagine there'd be any expansion/contraction due to hot cold temps. though jerusalem gets freezing in the winter, so maybe it's more to do with fixing the tiles with cement and sand.

edit; their marble, terrazzo and stone is mostly 20mm thick too.

i spent 4 months in israel in 1986 working on various moshavs, just thought id share this with you ,

[SR Tiling]

Also for waterproofing!

[GaryS]

yep waterproofing helps lol

[johnryan]

If you ever had a problem then you would'nt have a leg to stand on.

that's why i tried it at my sisters house. i explained to her about the potential pitfalls, but she said try it anyway, as i can always put a new floor down for her. she just wanted a floor with no grout joints in it, that was nice and shiny. it's been down over 2 years now, and it's still all good, with no problems so far. i'd never do it for a regular client though, for the reasons mentioned in this thread.
and nybor, which moshav were you in? when i first got there, i went to one in the south called pharan. i was picking peppers for 4 shekels an hour. stayed there for 8 months, and had a great time. moved up to the back packers hostels in tel aviv after, and started to get building work, and that's when i first started tiling. got taught by a turkish guy called jamal. one of the best tilers i've ever seen, he was.