Help!: Calling all Tilers-what are my rights after being a victim of a bodge job-Dot & Dab

[GaryS]

hmm not sure why he needs to buy new tiles to replace the ones that come off the wall if they are just dot dabbed on they should come off fairly easily and can be reused, if they dont then it kind of says that they would not have anyway there are a lot of builders who use the dot dab method to affix tiles and while it may not be the recconmended method in most cases it will provide a good standard of work it will depend on how much adhesive was used as dots and dabs in some cases where the walls are uneven it is the only way to get tiles flush and would be used anyway.

From what i read he needs to redo the border that is wrong and provide a guarantee for the tiling work in writing so you can have peace of mind, if the work looks ok and is guaranteed then you complaining that it was dot dabbed instead of full stuck is not a sufficient reason to withhold payment.

The wiring that your (plumber ?) said was wrong should still be checked though id suggest that you have an electrician rather than a plumber advise on it. You are within your rights to insist that a certificate is issued for the wiring however this means it has to be checked by an electrician not installed by one.

[johnryan]

So he took the old bathroom suite out, took a chimney out, replastered the room, plumbed in a new suite, altered the electrics and tiled the bathroom for £800???

Can I ask what the average price of the quotes you had were (exculding his)

he did all that for £800?

[whitebeam]

No way, not for £800.

[Dave]

Well, i think this thread has run it's course.. no more to offer this member as the rest is legal advice and we cannot offer that..





Thread closed.

[oracle]

Hi guys, i want to thank you for all of the advice you have given along the way and would like to apologise for the delay in updating this thread, my desktop stopped working and i have had other things going on.

Anyways, heres the update:

My parents were the ones responsible for arranging and appointing someone to carry out the works. They did not follow what most of you's would call the right procedure or logical steps in appointing the 'right' tradesmen. However, I am told that they called a few people and they were similarly priced in their estimates, for the work that was to be carried out. The ones that were selected assured my parents they are professionals, that their quality of work would astound them, they will have no reason to complain and the rest of it. My parents being quite simple people and seeing the best in everyone were taken in by it and gave the job to these guys, who might i add, were NOT the cheapest, but the ones that came across as having the knowledge and expertise of being able to do the job properly and competently.

I was the one responsible for getting/ordering/purchasing all the products and materials.

Anyhoo, after the first meeting (where he ran out the house, got in his car and zoomed off), my mother arranged for a second meeting (we instigated it because we wanted to sort things out either way and have the bathroom in a usuable state asap) and he came with a buddy of his (who apparently worked for a council). Anyway, i showed them both everything we had an issue with, he maintained that the work was good and that we wouldn’t face any problems in the future. He said he would relay them all but wanted us to provide him the materials for it, we said no. I explained all of the reasons why im not happy with the job and the guys responses kept changing from the fact that this is the way he always lays tiles, to the fact it was laid this way due to bad walls (that he plastered to correct-yet still the walls are the culprit when it suited his defence), to 'what did we expect for that amount of money'. At no point do we remember him saying that if we paid him more, he would do a better job, the price was negotiated and he was happy to do it for the agreed price.

Anyhow, i had a reasonable response to everything they had to say, backed up all my responses with British Standards, regulations etc and i told them that we no longer trust him or wish for him to continue working on our property. He then said he still wanted to be paid for it. Tensions grew, it became a long, drawn out 'meeting', going backwards and forth but when they knew that i was not having none of their feeble excuses, they then started appealing to my parents better side, with emotional pleas about how he has worked hard for many days on the bathroom, how he did my parents a favour in the first place by giving them a good price, how he had gone out and bought certain materials himself several times (which obviously we paid for and he ended up going several times to get because he told us the wrong amount to get in the first place or didnt tell us to get at all).

I offered him £200 take it or leave it and a few times in anger they tried to leave and i told them that this is the second time we have invited them to try and resolve the issue and we dont have time to waste, with an empty bathroom, so if they left the house without the issue resolved, then we will no longer be interested in talking of this matter again, unless its in a legal capacity. They carried on working on my parents ("the elders"). I told my parents that i honestly dont think they even deserve that but they got taken in by their pleas and false assurances and guarantees that nothing will happen to the tiles and if they ever did, he would come sort them out etc and my parents ended up paying him almost 60% of the agreed amount.

Since then, i took it upon myself to employ the services of credible people to finish off the work, got a professional electrician, plumber etc. The plumber even commented on how the tilers have done so many things wrong, that even made his job even more difficult when installing the plumbing, suite and accessories. We have ended up paying obviously allot more then what we had agreed with the previous problematic guy, but im very happy with the performance and results of the workmanship that the others have shown since. Very hard workers and perfectionists.

Ill upload some pics in a moment, but please bear in mind, that the pictures were taken from a mobile phone and does not show the full extent of the issues, that a better camera or a naked eye would.

Sorry for the long post

[Dave]

Thanks for the update.

[oracle]

PICTURES
They put the border on differently on different walls (upside down of one another)


Can you spot what theyve done here? Horizontal vs Vertical

Self explanotary


Some examples of uneven tiles (it isnt as obvious in the pictures)



Hasnt grouted properly in some places

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
In most places, the grouting or space between tiles is very uneven, even though we bought them spacers to use. These are quite prevalent in the following pictures, but most of the pictures show indication of such uneven spaces.

[oracle]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


This isnt the full extent, theres many more issues like these, but im sure you get the picture. If anyone is interested in how the bathroom looks as a whole now that it is nearly complete, let me know.

[Brinkley]

im
interested

[Scott]

Me too, that work is awful and i appreciate you coming back with the update.

Also thanks to whoever reopened this thread its nice to get the full story.

[garythetiler]

dear oracle how can you tell the tiler that his work doesnt meet british standards when you dont actually own a copy or even really know what the standards say ,reading all your posts it just seemed you didnt really want to pay for the job and had very unrealistic expectations of how the job would be finished ,we have a saying in the building industry pay peanuts and expect monkeys thanks for posting an update but take this as a lesson learnt never employ any one that gives you the cheapest quote and never use any one that you havent seen examples of their work

[oracle]

Hi, the British standards is BS5385-1-3. Can be found at many places on the net. Heres an example http://www.ribaproductselector.com/D...710365.pdf?ac= His work did not meet British Standards so thats why i could tell him. I found out about the standards after i saw him laying the tiles in a different way (D&D'ing). I havent once said that i wanted to pay him, you are right, if i had it my way or if i hired him, i wouldnt have paid him at all. Not because i wanted to save my money, rip him off or anything, but because (British standards or not) he didnt do a good job (not to mention dotting and dabbing, which could be problematic further down). Its ended up costing us more by part-paying him, hiring plumbers, electricians etc, so it wasnt because anything to do with fleecing him or paying less. It was insult to injury. The ironic thing is that he wasnt the cheapest, he gave my parents the impression (actually scrap that, he told them) that he is a professional, he slagged off the cheaper quoted tradesmen and said they will mess it up etc, quoted his experience etc and so he was selected because they thought he was best suited for the job. I do appreciate your advice and ofcourse if i was to ever select anyone for work, i would be allot more vigilant (although these days, that still might not be enough).

[steve187]

I think that at £800.00 for all the work that you listed, it was extremely cheap. i also feel that the bad tiling was visible, prior to being finished/grouted, and you should have raised the issue then.

[advancetiling]

the moral of this story is: employ builders to build,tilers to tile,plumbers to plumb and sparkies to do electrics.You can know a bit about every trade but can only reallly specialise in one.Thats my opinion anyway

[andy-p]

Sorry, i just checked. He used powder form for the grouting, for the actual adhesive it was actually the 15 litre tubbed adhesive by excel.

Dot dabbing with tubbed adhesive is a recipe for failure ........

[kilty55]

at least you have resolved it and its sorted now

[Dave]

Seen as this is now sorted and pics are added i can close this again now..