Help!: Is this pattern wrong??

[tommyzooom]

Ok, I started this job today,Modular tiles, 11 tiles pre-mixed in the box with the laying pattern printed on it, happy days I thought.
As I cracked on with it I quickly realised that there was 1 each of the smaller 2 sizes being left over from every box, and that i was going to have loads of these left over when I had used up all the 45x45 tiles.
So stopped work immediatly and informed the client, who phoned the tile shop (who aren't the greatest and most knowlegable, they told me evo quick set would be fine for these porcelain "we sell it all the time". I had to phone evo myself to get it changed)
The tile shop said they haven't heard of this problem before and even phoned spain to see if they have had a problem.
After much head scratching I still maintain the pattern is wrong, Yet it is such a plain mistake, surely the manufacturer wouldn't be sending them out like that?
I am to meet the manager tomorrow, but can any of you lads spot if I'm right or wrong

[Sir Ramic]

10 in the box or 11 ?? it shows 11 in the pattern and packaging ??

[kilty55]

seems to be an 11 tile box or it should be judging by the highlighted pattern

how many are you getting out a box 10 is it and its leaving 1 small one after your 3 tile repeat?

[tommyzooom]

Oops,sorry, yeah 11, (I edited the first post, 2 tiles left over after the 3 tile repeat)

[ukProTile]

Not sure about this 1 mate, the red 'solution' seems to be misleading! I think I can see where you might be wrong?!?

[Dan]

It's fine, but you need that bottom left large square coloured red for it to tesselate out. If you miss one of those off per pattern it'll cost you dearly.

[timeless john]

Not quite sure where you would use the 4th small 22.5x22.5mm tile apart from cuts to the edges, but the 45x22.5 would be used to square off the 'line' to the full 45x45 tile.
However if the measurement are correct 2no. 22.5 width tiles would give you 45cm and that is before you get a 3/4/5 mm joint!!!!!
Happy days or staggered joints.

[tommyzooom]

Thats what I'm saying Dan, the pattern is ok but that there should be an extra 45x45 tile (large square) for it to work out. How can the shop maintain it is ok???
what am I missing?

[tommyzooom]

Not quite sure where you would use the 4th small 22.5x22.5mm tile apart from cuts to the edges, but the 45x22.5 would be used to square off the 'line' to the full 45x45 tile.
However if the measurement are correct 2no. 22.5 width tiles would give you 45cm and that is before you get a 3/4/5 mm joint!!!!!
Happy days or staggered joints.

I'm not sure the client would want 2 45x22.5 tiles where a 45x45 should go TJ, I will be able to use some of the 45x22.5 tiles around the edges allright, but this floor is 55m2, So i'm still going to need 30-40 extra 45x45 tiles to finish this off

[timeless john]

No - not 2 rectangular tiles together - the width of the tiles do not allow for the thickness of the joint that is required when you put 2 tiles of 22.5 together against 1 tile of 45.
Yes you will need extra big tiles.

[Dan]

You need one of each tile to make the pattern, the pattern tessalates out over just those three tiles perfectly. And actually, if you work at that, you'll have the least wastage as each tile can be equally used for cuts.

Work out the coverage of those three tiles, and then work out how many you need inc your 10 - 15% for waste. Job done.

[hillhead]

Awkward one, i'd be tempted to go ahead then tell the shop to get more big ones out !
It's a pattern after all?

[tommyzooom]

Thanks lads, I thought I was missing something, The problem now is trying to explain this to the shop, who maintain they never had this prob before, Or that I need to open an extra dozen or so boxes to get at the large size tiles

[Bri]

I think it will work, like Dan said use 1 of each for the pattern repeat and then the 450x225 and 225x225 that are left out of each box can be used as cuts. The 450x225 can be used as half a 450x450 on the outer edge of the pattern. Hope this makes sense.

[tommyzooom]

Thanks Brian, but i will have 40+ of each left over, I won't use all them for cuts, and very few of the 22.5x22.5. Also the client has ordered enough tiles to cover the job, and won't want to be buying more

[Bri]

Thanks Brian, but i will have 40+ of each left over, I won't use all them for cuts, and very few of the 22.5x22.5. Also the client has ordered enough tiles to cover the job, and won't want to be buying more

I can see how its meant to work, but its really difficult to explain it!!!! I think the picture with the 11 tiles coloured in red is a bit misleading and it looks like the 2 'spare' tiles are being included in the cuts. It would all make much more sense if there were 9 tiles in each box!!!!!!

[tommyzooom]

I can see how its meant to work, but its really difficult to explain it!!!! I think the picture with the 11 tiles coloured in red is a bit misleading and it looks like the 2 'spare' tiles are being included in the cuts. It would all make much more sense if there were 9 tiles in each box!!!!!!

Yes, or even 12 tiles per box

[Bri]

Or 12 yeah!

[Sir Ramic]

For 55m2 you should have
173 of the large square
163 of the small square
167 of the rectangle

As TJ pointed out though the sizes of the 450 x 225 should really be 450 x 222.5
the small square should be 222.5 x 222.5 assuming that the large square is exactly 450 x450 and that you will be using a 5 mm joint.

I think that is correct and of course you should have allowed 10 % wastage.

This is a 55m2 floor
hopscotch 55m2.jpg

[doug boardley]

why not do the same pattern as your JOTM entry Tommy, looks like a mirror image.

[tommyzooom]

Update, apparently I do know what I'm doing.
So after meeting the tile shop manager, who would argue black white, I was told that I had not started against the wall with a full tile, and that the rectangle tiles should go across the floor,and not up along the floor, along with other such BS,
Also the client would have to buy another 10 or 11 boxes to get enough of the large tiles to finish his floor!
More investigation got a number for Carmen Ceramicart in Spain, who initially denied any probs, Eventually I was able to get a number for the guy who deals with Eire, and who happened to be in Ireland at the time
He eventually admitted that yes, On larger floors, they have had this problem, and he is now trying to source more 45x45 tiles of the same shade for the client, take about a week.

That won't help me much today, sat on my A**e, but I am glad that after 20years, I actually do know what I'm talking about. And hopefuly if you ever come across these tiles, You will be better armed before you begin.
It does seem like a fairly basic error on the manufacturers part, I mean how hard would it be to add an extra 45x45 tile to the pack, they would still be £xx per sq mtr

I read through this thread again, and thought I should say that the tile sizes I posted where approximate, and they do allow for grout etc

[aph257]

Agree totally, it's not rocket science to make the pack size to make the pattern work.

[tfs]

glad you got it resolved mate. Be sure to tell that salesman to establish the facts before he dismisses your claims in future

[lucius]

Agree totally, it's not rocket science to make the pack size to make the pattern work.

It is for the Spanish.

[Scott]

I think its advice for all lucius