Trying to learn from my mistakes here......

[cornish_crofter]

A few issues have come up with this wetroom.

One or two have been caused by me not being thorough enough with my preperation etc. Others have probably been caused by lack of experience or technique.

The former went down fine. Absolutely level etc.

However, a couple of areas caught me out

1) I had done most of the screed but had left channels for the plumbing. Now unfortunately when I back filled these I might have been too high in a few places. My view is that if I can't get it dead level with the existing screed for whatever reason, I should have aimed for it to be a bit lower than the existing floor. That way I would be left with the task of building up with a bit of adhesive, rather than having to remove screed.

2) Ditra Matting - where do I start! Firstly I thought I'd managed to get the ditra matting on level or straight with the floor. I used a mosaic trowel to apply the adhesive and the back of the same trowel to flatten it out. I even checked it with a level FFS! It looked to be level with the floor (slight fall in floor). The biggest problems I have had have been where I've got the Kerdi tape (or the Wetdecs supplied equivilent) laid on top. Despite having used the back of the trowel to flatten it (or a spatula where I couldn't get in with the trowel) I've still got lumps underneath!!!!!

3) Ditra matting again. The original screed that I put down was level with the top of the former. In fact when the former went down it lined up beautifully with the top. I had allowed exactly 50mm depth for the former. I then applied a bed of adhesive using my 10mm round notched trowel on both the former and the floor. Unfortunately the ditra matting added 3mm . Now I should have taken that into account and laid the screed 3mm lower, but I didn't. So I think I know where I went wrong there.

4) Applying the adhesive for the floor tiles. Now, fortunately for me the tiles I've got are thinner than allowed for. Hence most of the lumps in the tape are not an issue as the extra adhesive copes with them. However, applying the adhesive is really slowing me down!

Essentially I'm either putting on not enough and there is poor contact, or I'm putting on too much and it's oozing out of the bloody joints!

I would really appreciate help with laying the ditra matting and tape, and applying the adhesive. I'm looking at about a 3mm bed after the tile is in position. As I've explained the ditra matting isn't perfectly level, mainly thanks to my kak handidness as explained above. I've only got 4 more tiles to lay but at the rate I'm going it'll take me all morning to lay the bloody things!

Either I get it cracked or I'm giving up tiling altogether! that is how I feel.

And any help with levelling the walls out would be good. I've given myself the same problems where the tape meets the walls as I couldn't get those flat either!

[kilty55]

hello cornish,if your floors out cant you back butter as well to ensure good coverage,a wetroom imo is a difficult thing to do ,i dont have much experience of them myself apart from a few floors ive done in them to be honest.

take a deep breath and have a beer mate,

[Dan]

It's not an area I'm brilliant in so I'll let the lads answer the actual questions. However you learn like this and this is what experience actually is. Don't hang up the tools as on your next job like this you'll be very prepared.

[cornish_crofter]

The problem I'm having at the moment is working out exactly how much adhesive to apply to where the tile is going.

Yesterday I laid most of the tiles on the floor but every single tile was a complete guess and re apply.

I'm using the 10mm round notched trowel and started off by pressing down onto the substrate, but when this isn't giving enough of a bed I find I'm applying again but leaving the tips about 1 to 2mm off the substrait. It seems to be a very fine line between not enough so you've not got 100% contact to too much so it's going everywhere.

On a different note, there is one tile I just can't get level, thanks to that bloody Ditra matting with tape over it in that spot.. I've got it as best I can and left it. It happens to be where the floor meets the former, so I should be able to lose most of the problem in the grout. I don't think it looks too bad although I know it's there. My betting is that the customer will never notice it.

[tfs]

It sounds to me that you may have some bubbles/ adhesive build up under the mat (just a possibilty) did you flaten out the mat?

I would reccomend a 400mm by 200mm peice of 18mm ply with carpet stuck round it with spray, then use this to push out any voids/ air between mat and floor (same way you do when wall papering.

[cornish_crofter]

The problem with the ditra matting is mainly around the corners where the tape (6inch strip stuck down with tile adhesive) is stuck onto it. It seems that it's just not flat in these areas.

The floor is not too much of a problem apart from 1 tile, where I think I may have managed to lose the visual impact of it not sitting quite level with the one next to it. I am blessed with the tiles not being as thick as I had thought they were so there is room to accomodate this with the floor.

The walls are my concern. The walls around the bathroom aren't bad, but I've not helped myself where the tape is stuck on the walls. The problem is where two pieces overlap each other.

I don't think I've got air trapped underneath. Apart from the problem with the tape, I suspect I have simply made the mistake of not pushing in the trowel into the edges of the room

I think that next time I do a wetroom I'll actually remove the top layer of plaster from 3 to 4 inches up from the floor to give myself room for the tape and adhesive to sit.

[tfs]

ahh, the internal corner between floor and wall?

[charlie1]

You need to find out where the "high point" in you floor is and start there!, you can add material but you cant really take away

[cornish_crofter]

You need to find out where the "high point" in you floor is and start there!, you can add material but you cant really take away

I've pretty much sorted the floor now, just 4 more tiles to go - trimmed ones near the door.

The problem I've got is not having the skill in applying just the right amount of adhesive. Ideally I would like to lay these tiles in about half an hour without either not having enough contact or having the tile adhesive ooze out of the joints.

The question for tomorrow is how do you do this?

Your logic will be applied to the walls though.

[charlie1]

Whats the rush?? as for adhesive oozing out, mix it slightly thicker and this should avoid that one!!

[cornish_crofter]

The adhesive oozes out because there is more adhesive than there is space for it underneath the tile. If I mixed the adhesive thicker surely it would just be stiffer and the tile wouldn't press down to its required height?

[kilty55]

mix the adhesive thicker,lay tile butted up to front row your working off and drag tile back and press if you push it towards the row of tiles it will squeeze out the joints

hope this makes sense

[Saltire69]

If it oozes out of the joints, push the 2 tiles together and wipe it away then space them out and clean joints with a sponge. If you need to build the tiles up go up a trowel size.

[cornish_crofter]

Thanks for the last two replies Kilty and Saltire.

I guess what you're saying Kilty is that by laying the adhesive thicker your method will ensure that the excess adhesive is pushed away from the tiles you're working on, rather than all over the joists.

I'm mixing the adhesive as thick as I dare. It's a solid creamy consistancy. Any thicker and it'll have no give at all.

I don't see myself going up a trowel size as I'm already using the 10mm curved (wavey) notched trowel. I don't have any bigger.

I am wiping the adhesive as I go. 1st wipe with a sponge to remove it from the joint, then a rake out with a tile spacer to give me a joint for grouting.

I'll try these suggestions tomorrow. Thanks

[kilty55]

hi cornish,dont make it too thick just to the right consistency but when you go to lay it lay the tile tight to the one previously laidand drag back towardsa you,this will drag the edge adhesive away from the joint you are workin gon and stop thr addy squeezing through

[vosnack]

mix the adhesive thicker,lay tile butted up to front row your working off and drag tile back and press if you push it towards the row of tiles it will squeeze out the joints

hope this makes sense

That's exactly what I was about to write. That's the best way to do this. I sometimes simply use bucket trowel to spread adhesive if it's no use with the tile trowel.

[cornish_crofter]

hi cornish,dont make it too thick just to the right consistency but when you go to lay it lay the tile tight to the one previously laidand drag back towardsa you,this will drag the edge adhesive away from the joint you are workin gon and stop thr addy squeezing through

That's what I was thinking from your last post, so if/when I apply a little too much adhesive, the excess is pulled away from the edges rather than pushed onto them.

It just gets difficult when you do the last tiles around the edges. I always do the cuts last (apart from those on the former), and they're usually around the room.

[mikethetile]

persevere Hugo

youve learnt about the prep now and wont make the same error again, its a learning curve so dont beat yourself up about this

we all learn the hard way but come right in the end

[Ken Bruty]

Hi Cornish, we've all been there in the early days, don't worry it becomes second nature, you have to invest in yourself to start with (i.e. the jobs always seem to take longer than you imagine), but it's all part of learning the trade, quality first, speed later mate. I find if I'm building adhesive up, firstly trowel the floor, then trowel the ribs the same way on the back of your tile, this should bring your adhesive up 6-8mm depending on your trowel, then, when you press the tile down you have more control of the adhesive spreading evenly underneath, and you get more opportunity to adjust it if necessary up or down without losing coverage, then as kilty says, butt the tile up against the last and move away as you're bedding so that the movement sucks the adhesive away from the joint, these small details work for me every time. I find a quick way to build the adhesive up thicker than this (providing the manufacturer allows this in the adhesive spec!) is to spread adhesive on the floor with the flat part of your trowel or using the flat edge on your bucket trowel to the same level as the bottom of the previous tiles around and pull the trowel flat away from them, therefore creating a flat bed, then trowel the ribs straight on the back of your tile to be laid and press on to the bed you just created, clean job done! Also a tip for you, if you don't already know, is to always trowel out your adhesive in straight ribs when fixing as this allows any air to be squashed out from under the tile, therefore preventing lippage and tile corners being sucked down as the adhesive sets. Hope that helps mate and don't give up, it takes a lot of practice.

[heavytrevy]

Laying onto screed I use a 12mm min or a 15mm if its rough , it will save u alot of time.
I do loads of wetroom floors and it all comes down to experience, you need to get your eye in .

[cornish_crofter]

Thanks all

With the last few tiles I basically used the flat part of the trowel to give myself a flat bed then applied more adhesive with the ribbed part.

I think my problem was that I was trying to apply too much adhesive at once. The last wetroom I did I ended up using profix rapid set SPF to smooth out the rough concrete, then when this had gone off I then applied more SPF to lay the former down. That actually worked really well.

I guess for large areas, you could use a straight edge with a level on top to level out the adhesive, let it go off for about an hour then apply more adhesive on top and lay the tiles as normal.

[S.L.]

You need to find out where the "high point" in you floor is and start there!, you can add material but you cant really take away

I learnt this the hard away. grinding 2mm off the back of 600 x 300 porcelain was not fun.