Help!: ply overlay on chipboard.tiles popping up.

[sw tiling]

hi to all that can help me out, havnt been on here for a while so appreciate anyone that can.

last week tiled a bathroom floor, 60x60 galaxy (not granite the man made resin ones), left the job lookin perfect, it was flat as a pancake and level.
The subfloor was chipboard overlaid with 9mm wbp ply supplied by my plumber, it was screwd at 300mm centers and then inbetween each 300center was screwd down just incase, there was no movement at all to worry about.
I used bal apd primer, i used toppfix rapidset flexible as ive never ever had a problem with this adhesive on this substrate with these tiles, grout used was bal superflx wide joint.
went to the job the other day and grout was cracking and two tiles on the main walkthrough the bathroom were popping up and now moving too much, had a look under tile in threshold and the adhesive has bonded to the tile but has cracked and moved away from ply, immediate reaction was as ive never had a problem and i know it states you can use this adhesive on ply overlay, i went straight to toppfix who say to me you cant use this adhesive on ply over chipboard as the chipboard under the ply has probably swelled with moisture etc. It states on the bag that it is suitable for ply overlay, if you go into any house you usually have to ply over chipboard or floorboards which is why stupidly ive assumed the adhesive is fine.

To cut a long story short i would normally board a floor with hardibacker but the ply was supplied by my plumber so i used it,

my question is how would you guys overcome this problem? would you take up the popping up tiles and ditra over the ply? or would you use bal fastlex as recommended by topps to solve the problem.

Has this issue ever happend to any of you when tiling over ply screwd into chipboard?

Thanks guys

[Bri]

Cement boards are really the only solution, the 9mm ply is too thin also. I'm sure that on the adhesive it should state that 15mm is the british standard. Sounds like you might have to take it up and start again

[andy allen]

sounds like the floor was flexing to much, 9mm ply is to thin, is the chip board a floating floor? or is it upstairs on joist.

[andy allen]

by the way bal no longer recommend superflex grout on wooden floors, should be wide joint grout with GT1 admix.

[Dave]

Apart from the obvious ply thickness... You might find priming has hindered the bond.. Does the adhesive state to prime ply before fixing..?

[sw tiling]

The floor was an upstairs bathroom, the chipboard is screwed into joists.
I didnt see any flex in the chipboard when walked on and only used the 9mm ply as this is what the plumber supplied (big mistake learnt my lesson) normally when i supply my materials i use 12.5mm hardi.
The adhesive does state to prime the plywood.
The guy at the helpline said he thinks the chipboard underneath, altough solidly screwd is swelling with moisture.

[sw tiling]

Also thats good to know about bal superflex on wooden floors now not being recomended, wish i was told this sooner ill bear that in mind thanks.

[Sir Ramic]

Can you answer your private message please !

[sw tiling]

Can you answer your private message please !

sory im not on my computer all day delete swhite31404

[Scott]

It says the adesive is suitable when used with 15mm ply. Is that primer suitable for that adhesive and should the surface have been primed?

[Perfect Tiling]

Apart from using ply that was too thin (don't rely on the plumber...your'e the tiler!!!) why did you use BAL primer when using Topps own adhesive. You should never mix different companies products. If you are using BAL primer then use BAL adhesive and do everything by the book. If you normally use 12.5mm hardi then I would stick with it...It may be more expensive but its cheaper than having to redo the whole job off your own back...sorry but it looks like you will need to lift the lot and start again.

[PJPro]

Apart from using ply that was too thin (don't rely on the plumber...your'e the tiler!!!) why did you use BAL primer when using Topps own adhesive. You should never mix different companies products. If you are using BAL primer then use BAL adhesive and do everything by the book. If you normally use 12.5mm hardi then I would stick with it...It may be more expensive but its cheaper than having to redo the whole job off your own back...sorry but it looks like you will need to lift the lot and start again.

Err. I've used BAL primer with Topps Adhesive. And BAL tanking. Should I expect problems?

[doug boardley]

is Topps addy not Bal re-branded?

[Dave]

is Topps addy not Bal re-branded?

No Doug.. Palace..

[sw tiling]

Thanks to all who have replied and given advice etc, this is the first job ive ever had fail on me & it realy does make you stand back to see if theres anything else im doing wrong, i think i have to put it down to lazyness by not paying attention to products to use the correct one, you always learn from things like this and i definately have.
Thanks.

[doug boardley]

the day we stop learning is the day to pack up sw

[Scott]

Its a valuble lesson to learn

[TrumpersUnited]

some of the resin manufacturers say you should use a 2 part adhesive as the tiles can bow.

when you take the tiles up see if they have bowed and check what adhesive the manufacturer recommend.

I personally wouldn't use a SPF adhesive with these tiles.

[faithhealer]

Ive lost two bathrooms this year because I wouldn't tile on the plumbers 9mm ply

[sw tiling]

some of the resin manufacturers say you should use a 2 part adhesive as the tiles can bow.

when you take the tiles up see if they have bowed and check what adhesive the manufacturer recommend.

I personally wouldn't use a SPF adhesive with these tiles.

That does make sense, these tiles were slightly bowed when fixing them, not by much but enough that the tile would be flush on all corners but then lipping in the middle by 2mm, ill bare that in mind for future, thanks.

[Perfect Tiling]

Hi Faithhealer...The same with me...lost a few floors because I wouldn't quote with 6mm ply and always priced for hardibacker. I'd rather do a job right than have to to it twice (the 2nd time would have to be at my expense too)!! Its not worth the hassle or bad reputation when your job goes wrong. Heard today of a builder who does his own tiling...using 5 dots of.....................silicon...doh

[Dave]

some of the resin manufacturers say you should use a 2 part adhesive as the tiles can bow.

when you take the tiles up see if they have bowed and check what adhesive the manufacturer recommend.

I personally wouldn't use a SPF adhesive with these tiles.

60x60 galaxy (not granite the man made resin ones),

You are right but not just any 2 part adhesive.. it should be a polyurethane type 2 part adhesive.. as in no water additive... Some of these cheaper conglomerate tiles do not like the water from the adhesive or heat applied to them..