Drying out limestone tiles

[noonandchas]

Hi, first timer here with a bit of an ongoing problem:

Our tiler fixed moleanos white limestone to our wetroom walls using weber rapidset, but as the walls were not square he used dot & dab (which I now know is not ideal - have read a few threads on here and spoken to the tileshop): sure you won't be surprised to hear that they are not drying out. Well, some are, but those closest to the floor with least adhesive behind.

Those from waist height up have big damp patches (I'm trying not to use the word 'stain' as I don't want to...) and after about 3 weeks of dehumidifier action not much seems to have changed, although we're emptying out about 1.5 pints a day from it. Our plumber (who brought in the tiler) has dropped off a large heater to try and we're now going to give that a go.

Does anyone think this will dry given time (its not our only bathroom so can live without it for a while) or are we kidding ourselves?

All advice would be much appreciated - thanks in advance

[timeless john]

to the Tilers Forum.

What colour Webber rapid set did he use?
With the dehumidifier have you got the windows shut.
Have the tiles been sealed and if so at what stage.

[noonandchas]

It's white, the window has stayed shut (but door is off and can't easily go back on yet, however, we have tacked a heavy curtain over it - should we have something better like a sheet of polythene?) and the tiles have not been sealed.

From looking at various flood damage sites it seems to be a case of either dehumidifier or heat: our plumber dropped off a heater for us to use as well (was hoping for a heavy duty fan as we've been using a domestic one) but I think even my long forgotten physics tells me that a hot air blower will cancel the dehumidifier out so not much point in running both of those together. Was thinking of ditching the dehumidifier for a few days, opening the window a so that warm air can escape and going for it with the heater.

[jay]

welcome as timeless asked what color adh was used and maybe a pic would help

[noonandchas]

Thanks for the interest so far guys. The adhesive is white, and have attached a pic of the tiles. We've had the dehumidifier going since about the 29th Oct now so just over 3 weeks. The pic shows the worst looking tiles, some are much lighter, but those are the one closest to the floor where less adhesive was used.
PICT0002.jpg

[whitebeam]

That obviously shows the dot and dab, how thick was the adhesive

[grumpygrouter]

I don't think you will get rid of the marks. I think it is shadowing from the adhesive and not that they are damp. After 3 weeks the Weber adhesive should have cured completely so moisture from the adhesive should have gone by now IMO. The tiles should have been fixed with a full coverage i.e the backs of the tiles skimmed with adhesive and the trowel should have been used to notch the adhesive on the wall for fixing. If the wall wasn't flat, it should have been made so before tiling. Dot and Dab is not an acceptable method of fixing at all and I think this is where your problem lies.

[Scott]

I am in agreement with Oli here, i think if the tiles had been backskimmed and fixed properly then the colour would have been uniform.


There was a similar case a few weeks ago, im afraid the marks arent going to go away
adhesive moisture patches not going from Limestone Tiles

This is from about a month ago, same thing im afraid

[Ceramica Tiling]

ill second that. A light stone needs skimming on the backs to prevent shading. There is no way of fixing this problem. They need to come up

[Dave]

Hi and welcome..

I'm afraid IMO the adhesive has darkened the tile.. on light stones you are supposed to back skim the tiles first to fully cover the back of the tile this then lets the tiles go an even shade if they are are effected by moisture.. then the tiler could have back buttered with more adhesive coverage than he has and then bed out the tiles to even up the substrate/tiled surface with an adhesive suitable for the bed thickness.

But what you have there as stated by our members above is not good and unlikely to get any better than what you have now.. the adhesive spots have dried as much as they will..

Hope this helps..

[noonandchas]

Thanks to all for your comments: whilst none of it really makes me feel any better you are voicing suspicions we've held for a while now. Now onto the tricky subject of who foots the bill for the repair work. Would anyone care to comment on where liability might lie?

[kilty55]

did the tiler get paid direct or was he part of the plumbers contract for the bathroom?

[timeless john]

I'd agree with all the previous!
Tiles are stained from the back just like blotting paper and its down to the fixing method - would have been even worse with a darker adhesive.
Only reason I asked about the windows being shut is I had a Kitchen Co.. a few years ago who were trying to dry out a floor screed with a dehumidifier and open window - and after 4 weeks the lake down the road ran dry

Typing at the same time as you - your next point liability.
Only one place I can see and that's with the tile fixer as he should have been aware of the correct proceedure for the fixing of natural stone and in this case White Limestone.

[Dave]

Thanks to all for your comments: whilst none of it really makes me feel any better you are voicing suspicions we've held for a while now. Now onto the tricky subject of who foots the bill for the repair work. Would anyone care to comment on where liability might lie?

It can only lay with the Fixer i'm afraid.. knowledge is what lacked here.. and incorrect fixing method.

[Dave]

Posted the same tine as John..

So hope all this advice helps..

[kilty55]

the thing is if the tiler was working for the plumber(him being the main contractor on the job) then the plumber is the one you have to seek compensation from,and he has to do the same if he wants to recoup from the tiler

[noonandchas]

Thanks guys. The floor tiles look fine, but as its a tanked wet room will they have to come up as well?

[Dave]

If they are fine then leave those alone and just replaced the blobbed strained ones. Unless you are dubious of how they are fixed.

[noonandchas]

Our contract is with the plumber: the tiler is working under him.

[Dave]

Then i would speak to the plumber and tell him the tiles are stained and not fixed to BS5385 standards..

[noonandchas]

Thanks for the advice. Floor seems sound, but the tiler seemed to think at an earlier crisis meeting before we brought in the dehumidifier that they might need to come up as well and cited the tanking as the reason.

[Dave]

The reason for what..?.. The adhesive should be cement based and this dries Hydrolically by chemical reaction.. only the moisture left in the stone once the adhesive has set and this normally would dissipate within 48 hrs or so..

The Tanking will not effect the drying for the time scale you have waited.. hence why we say they are now stained..

Good luck and please let us know how this pans out ..

[noonandchas]

I think he was suggesting that the removal of the wall tiles would affect the tanking and that the whole lot might have to come off for a complete 'start again'. Sounds like that should not be the case, which is in the circumstances counts as good news. Meeting to be had with our plumber and I will report back. I would like to point out that this issue with the tiles aside we are very happy with the quality of the plumbing work and the look of the floor.

[timeless john]

Being happy with half a job isn't the point I'd have thought!
In post 21 we learn a bit more of the previous discussions you've had with the 'tiler' and are you now suggesting he has already advised that the whole lot have to be removed and start again with the tanking!
If so what are you waiting for - get them to remove the lot and this time get it done professionally ie by someone who understands stone tile fixing.
Just out of curiousity what weight are the wall tiles and what tanking has been used on the walls?
You mention that the tiles have not been sealed - does this include the floor tiles and at what stage are they being protected.

[noonandchas]

Its a bit harder explaining the order of everything thats gone on in a few words on a forum and I'm a homeowner not a professional, but just to summarise for now the job has progressed well bar the one big issue of how the wall tiles have gone on. Its not ideal, but its an honest mistake that we now need to get put right. My original question about whether the tiles will dry out has I think in all likelihood been answered and it seems that the only course of action is to replace the tiles. I'll report back when there's more to say, but thank you to everyone so far for your useful advice.

[jay]

Its a bit harder explaining the order of everything thats gone on in a few words on a forum and I'm a homeowner not a professional, but just to summarise for now the job has progressed well bar the one big issue of how the wall tiles have gone on. Its not ideal, but its an honest mistake that we now need to get put right. My original question about whether the tiles will dry out has I think in all likelihood been answered and it seems that the only course of action is to replace the tiles. I'll report back when there's more to say, but thank you to everyone so far for your useful advice.

that would be great thanks

[Daz]

Just out of curiousity what weight are the wall tiles and what tanking has been used on the walls?

Just to elaborate on TJ's post......
As well as the weight of the tiles, what is the "tanked" substrate, please?

And, if the walls were so bad, why weren't they sorted prior to the tiling?