1st Job: DIY Tiler - 90 sq m of large format porcelaine tiling making me nervous!

[PJPro]

Hi!

I'm having a new extension built on my house. In fact, I've spent today putting in the CAT6 ethernet network (cables and conduit) and bashing through the old gable wall to join the two lofts. But that's another story.

My wife also ordered the 600x400mm porcelaine floor tiles (10mm thick) from Topps. I've got 90 sq metres coming by the end of the week. I am growing more than a little nervous about the laying of these tiles. I've got the porch, hall, dining room and kitchen floors downstairs to do, as well as the downstairs toliet (walls and floor). I've also got the floor and walls of the upstairs bathroom to do.

I'm going to be under pressure to be quick as the other trades are going to be waiting for me to finish before the 2nd fix carpenty and plumbing goes in.

I'm expecting the upstairs bathroom to be a special challenge. It will contain a quadrant shower enclosure with on wall mixer. The bath, basin and toilet will be placed against a low wet wall of about 1m high, containing all the pipework. The basin and toilet will be hung off this wall using Gerberit installation frames and a hidden cistern. The bath has wall mounted taps.

So. My worries. Well, the main one is making sure I'm doing things right.

The floor will be a moisture proof chipboard, topped with hardybacker. Do I need anything else? Should I also put down a waterproof membrane? How about the joints of the hardybacker? Do I need to use waterproof membrane on the walls/floor of the shower? How about the dry lined walls generally? Should I seal them with something like uPVA before tiling?

I've read with interest some of the banter over Sigma and Rubi dry cutters. The 3B or TX-700-N look good. But are these really going to do the business in the hands of a novice like me or should I be looking to buy a wet saw? I've used a (cheap) dry cutter before, many years ago, without much success.

I'm very worried about cutting the hole for the toilet flush plate. It's a fairly large affair (Gerberit - Kappa). How on earth am I going to cut such a big hole in a porcelaine floor tile? Using a jigsaw?

Clearly, I've got a lot of holes to drill. Are those Porsadrills really my best bet? I was shocked to see that each bit lasts long enough for two holes before it's ready for the bin. I do have a large drill press.....does this give me other options?

I'm fairly practical and can turn my hand to just about anything. I used to be a skilled labourer in my younger years and I am a qualified (but inexperienced) plumber. I'm hoping with a bit of good advice and encouragement I can pull this off.

Grateful for any comments.

[kilty55]

hello and welcome,my 1st question is have you done any tiling before? if not this is a mammoth job for a 1st timer

[Dan]

Clearly, I've got a lot of holes to drill. Are those Porsadrills really my best bet? I was shocked to see that each bit lasts long enough for two holes before it's ready for the bin.

Who said this?!

If you checkout the instructions, and the more appealing to the eye instructional video, I think you'll get more than several cuts from each bit. Given the fact a bunch of bits come in at a reasonable price, you should have enough for a couple of bathrooms all in all.

For the avid whole driller in really tough porcelain then consider the RotoZip or BOSCH GTR-30something something which is replacing the RotoZip. A very very nice piece of kit and is reviewed by Dave in the tools forum.

Oh and, welcome to the forum.

[PJPro]

Hi there! My first reply on this forum. Thanks kilty55.

I did a small amount of tiling when I installed a kitchen for my mum. But other than that......

While I do have 90 sq m to lay, the bulk of the work can be completed in slower time. So, for instance, the downstairs floor (approx 40 sq m) will not be laid until the screed has had a chance to go off. But I do have to get the upstairs bathroom done and dusted in about a week....and the plumber will be waiting. And it's the room which requires all the tricky drilling, etc.

[Alan.P]

Hi and welcome, with all due respect and I mean this, if you have other trades waiting for you, and if this is your first tiling job, you are in very deep water, you have so many different substrate preparations and adhesives to consider, tanking ( waterproofing ) and so much inthe way of setting out it blows my mind thinking of it being your first job.

[Alan.P]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, must type faster, if you can split the job into smaller segments we should be able to help step by step,have you thought about getting a pro tiler though ?

[Sir Ramic]

Wowo, lots of questions.
1st dont use PVA, use a tile primer as recommended by the adhesive manufacturer you are using.

2nd. Porsadrills last a lot longer than they say, use water though to keep cool and help clean the bit.

3rd Walls, make sure they can take the weight of the tiles...more info needed.

4th, Tanking membranes in shower areas Deffo, seems like a lot of money going on here so why cut corners

5th Cutters, both machines fine but the Rubi would be the chooice of most 1st timers IMO, It really depends what you are used to. Wet cutters are great but not needed so much with the tiles you have chosen and I wouldnt want to cut everything on my wet cutter.

6th Are you sure you can meet deadlines ? Maybe worth getting a pro in to do the tiling.

[kilty55]

ok mate,il lbe honest if your paying for porcelain iyt wil be costing you no doubt,my opinion is get a pro in. your obviously looking for a good finish as your also emplying a plumber etc.

if you get the tiling wrong it will totally ruin the job,normally id give positive advice to go for it but on a job that size with almost zero experience i would say get a tiler in

[Dave]

Hi and welcome.. Ok .. If you have the time , we have the skills to talk you through it..

[PJPro]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, must type faster, if you can split the job into smaller segments we should be able to help step by step,have you thought about getting a pro tiler though ?

Hmm. I did consider it. But then I ran out of money.

[doug boardley]

before you shoot off with your head in your hands...don't PVA the walls!!

[faithhealer]

wow hell of a first job welcome to the forum, step by step and the lads will talk you through it

[doug boardley]

what's your timescale for the bathroom PJ, maybe we can address this first as it seems to be the priority at the mo

[whitebeam]

Hi and welcome

[guil.rocha]

Hello mate, maybe I could come over and take a look at the job. I'm based in Poole and I give very competative prices. Check out some of our work at stylingtiling.webs.com

[doug boardley]

Hi!

I'm having a new extension built on my house. In fact, I've spent today putting in the CAT6 ethernet network (cables and conduit) and bashing through the old gable wall to join the two lofts. But that's another story.

My wife also ordered the 600x400mm porcelaine floor tiles (10mm thick) from Topps. I've got 90 sq metres coming by the end of the week. I am growing more than a little nervous about the laying of these tiles. I've got the porch, hall, dining room and kitchen floors downstairs to do, as well as the downstairs toliet (walls and floor). I've also got the floor and walls of the upstairs bathroom to do.

I'm going to be under pressure to be quick as the other trades are going to be waiting for me to finish before the 2nd fix carpenty and plumbing goes in.

I'm expecting the upstairs bathroom to be a special challenge. It will contain a quadrant shower enclosure with on wall mixer. The bath, basin and toilet will be placed against a low wet wall of about 1m high, containing all the pipework. The basin and toilet will be hung off this wall using Gerberit installation frames and a hidden cistern. The bath has wall mounted taps.

So. My worries. Well, the main one is making sure I'm doing things right.

The floor will be a moisture proof chipboard, topped with hardybacker. Do I need anything else? Should I also put down a waterproof membrane? How about the joints of the hardybacker? Do I need to use waterproof membrane on the walls/floor of the shower? How about the dry lined walls generally? Should I seal them with something like uPVA before tiling?

I've read with interest some of the banter over Sigma and Rubi dry cutters. The 3B or TX-700-N look good. But are these really going to do the business in the hands of a novice like me or should I be looking to buy a wet saw? I've used a (cheap) dry cutter before, many years ago, without much success.

I'm very worried about cutting the hole for the toilet flush plate. It's a fairly large affair (Gerberit - Kappa). How on earth am I going to cut such a big hole in a porcelaine floor tile? Using a jigsaw?

Clearly, I've got a lot of holes to drill. Are those Porsadrills really my best bet? I was shocked to see that each bit lasts long enough for two holes before it's ready for the bin. I do have a large drill press.....does this give me other options?

I'm fairly practical and can turn my hand to just about anything. I used to be a skilled labourer in my younger years and I am a qualified (but inexperienced) plumber. I'm hoping with a bit of good advice and encouragement I can pull this off.

Grateful for any comments.

if you can, try straddling the flush plate with two tiles, (I've done hundreds of these geberit ones) with the joint in the middle of the plate. Use an angle grinder for the two cuts from the tile edge into the tile, then use your dry cutter (TX700 would be my choice) to score and snap the rest out

[PJPro]

Wohaa. So many replies. Thanks guys.

The job is being managed by a local building firm. He gets in subbies to do the work and he does the carpentry. I'm the customer! So I can tell the plumber to come back a week later. But the time limit is as much about the holiday I have left and pressure of my day job (which is paying for the bulk of the work). And, clearly, my misses is keen to get the job done....as am I.

OK. So I won't use PVA on the walls, I'll use tile primer. Not heard of that before! I believe we have order BAL flexible fast drying adhesive (or whatever Topps recommended). The walls will be dry lined on concrete block. There are no stud walls.

Sounds like the Porsadrills are a fairly save bet then. The 2 holes quote came from their own site.

So, the dry cutters are going to be up to the job then. I don't have a real preference between Sigma or Rubi. I've seen some cool videos of the Sigma in action but it seems to be a lot more money than the Rubi. I don't mind spending money on tools and have a large range of what I regard as quality (or at least the most I can afford) hand and power tools to hand.

The tiles themselves cost a fair whack....mainly because there are so many of them! They're called Menissa I think. But, ya know, when I compared the cost of the tiles to carpet and underlay or engineered wood they seemed quite reasonable and should be longer lasting. Just need to get them down right.

OK. I'll use waterproof membrane around/under the shower. I've seen a 10m roll at Topps for £50. Sound good?

[Dan]

Wohaa. So many replies. Thanks guys.

The job is being managed by a local building firm. He gets in subbies to do the work and he does the carpentry. I'm the customer! So I can tell the plumber to come back a week later. But the time limit is as much about the holiday I have left and pressure of my day job (which is paying for the bulk of the work). And, clearly, my misses is keen to get the job done....as am I.

OK. So I won't use PVA on the walls, I'll use tile primer. Not heard of that before! I believe we have order BAL flexible fast drying adhesive (or whatever Topps recommended). The walls will be dry lined on concrete block. There are no stud walls.

Sounds like the Porsadrills are a fairly save bet then. The 2 holes quote came from their own site.

So, the dry cutters are going to be up to the job then. I don't have a real preference between Sigma or Rubi. I've seen some cool videos of the Sigma in action but it seems to be a lot more money than the Rubi. I don't mind spending money on tools and have a large range of what I regard as quality (or at least the most I can afford) hand and power tools to hand.

The tiles themselves cost a fair whack....mainly because there are so many of them! They're called Menissa I think. But, ya know, when I compared the cost of the tiles to carpet and underlay or engineered wood they seemed quite reasonable and should be longer lasting. Just need to get them down right.

OK. I'll use waterproof membrane around/under the shower. I've seen a 10m roll at Topps for £50. Sound good?

You may find you can rent a cutter, I've rented a couple of Rubi's before now.

[Sir Ramic]

You could hire a cuttter or even buy and then sell it on when done.

[doug boardley]

You may find you can rent a cutter, I've rented a couple of Rubi's before now.

but make sure it's in the TX range (imo)

[PJPro]

what's your timescale for the bathroom PJ, maybe we can address this first as it seems to be the priority at the mo

Thanks for your reply Doug. The work isn't going to really going to kick off until the house is secured....tomorrow! I've got a ton and a half of tiles, adhesives and grout arriving at the end of the week.

I suspect the plumber will start next week. He's got to fit a boiler and run pipework for the bathroom, downstairs toilet and the underfloor heating. He's also got to consider how he's going to tie into the existing house. A reckon it'll take him a week. I suspect the bathroom will be ready for a start next monday. I'll have a week to get the job done (including the fitting of the installation frames and wetwall).

[Sir Ramic]

but make sure it's in the TX range (imo)

If you were to buy a cutter then a good one stands a better chance of getting a good resale price. The TX range from rubi, Sigma and Montolit are the top cutters IMO and are sought after.

[Alan.P]

OK, so lets assume and I think I'm right,your gonna tackle this, right first room being the bathroom, what are the walls and floor substrates ?

[Sir Ramic]

OK, so lets assume and I think I'm right,your gonna tackle this, right first room being the bathroom, what are the walls and floor substrates ?

And how big is the room ? Sounds a lot of work to do in one week.

[PJPro]

but make sure it's in the TX range (imo)

I was intending to buy a cutter. Looks like the Rubi TX-700-N is the one to go for? How does the TX-700 (no N) differ to the TX-700-N? Is the N worth the extra?

I'm gonna have to buy the cutter tomorrow at the lastest, along with the (10mm) notched trowel, grout trowel, knee pads, etc, etc, etc.

[kilty55]

pj do you have a wet cutter

[whitebeam]

It's a longer measuring bar with the N, I'd go for the standard 700

[Sir Ramic]

I was intending to buy a cutter. Looks like the Rubi TX-700-N is the one to go for? How does the TX-700 (no N) differ to the TX-700-N? Is the N worth the extra?

I'm gonna have to buy the cutter tomorrow at the lastest, along with the (10mm) notched trowel, grout trowel, knee pads, etc, etc, etc.

Give Tradetiler.com Home a call and David will sort you out. order tomorrow and it will be with you the day after.

[guil.rocha]

whats the size of this room?

[PJPro]

And how big is the room ? Sounds a lot of work to do in one week.

The room dimensions.....

Approx 3m by 2m by 2.4m (LxWxH)

The substrates....

The floor of the bathroom will be moisture resistant chipboard sitting on top of joists at 400 centres. The chipboard (25mm?) will be topped with 6mm Hardybacker.

3 of the 4 walls are concrete block (the big soft white ones). The 4th wall is brick (it used to be the external wall of our house). There are no stud walls. The walls will be dry lined with plasterboard (12.5mm?).