Help!: Poor Quality Tiling / Refusing Receipts

[jackal792]

We paid our builder a couple of week ago in cash for the 2 weeks work he had completed (new bathroom) with some snags. He still had 3 weeks of work left so we decided between us that snags could all be brought together and sorted at the end.

He provided us with paper work for the payment and we had a project folder that we all had access to for supplier contacts and receipts etc... in case there were problems.

We thought everything was fine, after we both left for work, he called my partner to say he was not happy with the snag list and left the work as it stood (they had started some plastering in another part of the house) without any extra charges.

They took all the paperwork they had provided (material receipts and proof of payment etc...) from the project folder.

Now there are issues with bathroom (mainly tiling which we don't want him to fix as we have lost confidence in him). I've chatted with him on the phone and he has offered to fix the work but has point blank refused to provide a receipt for the work.

He called back and said "before you call the taxman i've put everything through my books so don't bother", and eventually agreed to provide a receipt.

Now I have my doubts over if he will provide a receipt.... but does anyone know where we stand legally over this? There was NO cash discount agreed at the start of the job as he said everything goes through the books so he didn't mind how we paid.

We would just like a receipt for the work should we sell the house or should anything go wrong we can prove he did the work.

The job isn't terrible but there are parts of the job which take the shine off the finish.
Examples:
Proud tiles
Black grout gone white
Tiles not lined up correctly
Tiles not square in corners
Very cheap/lose/sharp corners on trim/edging

We have had a couple of guys in to quote for the rest of the work and to rectify the tiling the original builders did this comes in at £200-£300.

I've asked the original builder to pay for the tiles needed to fix the problem (~£60) but he has flat out refused.

Just wondering if anyone has any useful advise around the situation?

[Ajax123]

Assuming that the tiler fixes the snags satisfactorily and does it FOC why would you need a receipt. I also assume that he has given you an invoice for his work???

[Phil Hobson]

Sorry you are having these problems, can you put some pics up of tiling issues.I think for legal reasons, it is best for the members to be aware of the specific complaints before passing judgment

[jackal792]

Assuming that the tiler fixes the snags satisfactorily and does it FOC why would you need a receipt. I also assume that he has given you an invoice for his work???

We had a project folder which we kept paper work in, the builder went through the folder and took all paper work they had provided to us without our consent.


I'll get some pics up.

[jackal792]

An example of the proud tiles, the tiler claimed he couldn't do anything about this without any reason why.
Proud.jpg
Where the black sealant is all over the white tiles, looks pretty obvious as you enter the room
Sealant.jpg
Over hanging trim, we didn't realise this was an issue but we have since been told that trim should not be fitted like this and should be flush with the tiles.
Trim.jpg
Tiles which haven't been lined up, I would have thought this shouldn't happen when using spacers?
LineUp.jpg
This is an idea of the type of things which we don't like... there are more examples.

[Colour Republic]

Not good is it. Looks like an expensive suite too

[timeless john]

How you pay him is not the issue - Cash/Cheque/Card - but you should have a receipt for the amount you have paid and for what work was completed.
You should not have paid the full account if there was snagging work to be completed a retention should have been agreed. The receipts would have been his if you were paying a supply and fix account as he will need them for his returns to the taxman and were only provided to you for your inspection prior to payment.
From your pictures posted it looks as though you do have issues with the standard of tiling and I hope a happy outcome if forthcoming. Try the fantastic work but.....approach first and see if it gets any results - no one likes criticisim even when justified - but you may find it provides results.
Good luck !

[mikethetile]

as John rightly said the recipts belong to your builder and he needs them for the taxman, incidently everyone who is self employed is being inspected at the moment so we all need to keep our recipts as hmrc are employing agency workers to look for discrepencies so he was right to remove recipts for what he paid for but not for what you supplied

theres a bit more to this than you are saying if he is plastering Foc in other parts of the house

the standard of tiling is not the best nor is it the worst but it will still be expensive to put right, the problem is a lot of builders think tiling is easy and they do it themselves rather than sub to a proper tiler

my advice to you is to write this builder off and contact your solicitor regarding claiming back the cost of correcting his work, its a bit late to say now but the recipt for the money you gave him was yours and shouldnt have gone into the project folder untill he had completed the works and left the job

good luck getti ng it sorted and dont do anything without speaking to your solicitor as this builder sounds a bit fly and knows how the system works

[jackal792]

There was a section of hallway which they plastered badly/unfinished before they left which he has said is free of charge (although we'll need another plasterer to skim over it).

We don't trust the guy to return to the house without anyone being there to be honest. We have considered a solicitor but we were on the understanding that we would need to give the builder another chance to correct the work?

We'd rather a professional correct the work in case he make it
even worse.

[jay]

not good if you like you can list your job on here

[mikethetile]

There was a section of hallway which they plastered badly/unfinished before they left which he has said is free of charge (although we'll need another plasterer to skim over it).

We don't trust the guy to return to the house without anyone being there to be honest. We have considered a solicitor but we were on the understanding that we would need to give the builder another chance to correct the work?

We'd rather a professional correct the work in case he make it
even worse.

your right you do need to give him oppurtunity to correct his work, which you did with the snag list you left him with, if I understand the situation right he disagreed with the list and refused to to do further works removing himself and his paperwork from the job

I could tell you how to proceed but I wont as im not a qualified legal advisor and this is a tiling forum

so my advice to you is get your solicitor involved now, the alternative is to write off everything you have paid and pay out again to correct his work

he has sacked you and wont come back so dont worry about upsetting him, just concentrate on getting your work sorted properly

[Oli]

Im in a bit of a rush this morning so this is a very slimmed down version of advice;

1. Send him a letter recorded delivery telling him the areas of tiling your unhappy with, include the photo's to make things absolutley clear
2. State in the letter that he has 14 days to respond, and if he agrees give him a reasonable amount of time to correct the faults (all at his own expense)
3. If he doesnt agree to correct the faults get some other quotes and choose someone to do the work, keep the quotes, ask the tilers qouting to go into a bit more detail that usualy as to what needs doing and why when they write the quote.
4. Choose one of the tilers to do the work and get it done, and get a fuller report from them as to what was wrong.
5. Keep comprehensive before and after photo's
6. Go to www.moneyclaim.gov.uk and issue small claims prooceedings to recover the cost of the repair work.

Make sure you only correspond with the current tiler in writing, and by recorded delivery, dont be drawn into conversation on the telephone with him.

If he supplied materials then the only 'reciept' you will get is an invoice for the work, he will need the reciepts for his tax retun.

Dont be tempted to miss out any of the steps, or go straight in for another tiler without corresponding with the current one in writing, if you have it done without giving him oppertunity to rectify you will probably lose any court case. And although you say he has already refused, unless its in writing, or no reponse, he could just go to court and deny you gave him chance.

Keep a folder with the letters and replies in.

You dont need a solicitor, money claim online is very easy to use, if it gets that far ill give you some more pointers.

Oli

[jackal792]

Oli, mikethetile,

The information has been very useful, a couple of questions

1) What if he denies doing the work at all? This is what he implied over the phone when I asked for a receipt for the work (this would have been my proof that they did the work)

2) "State in the letter that he has 14 days to respond, and if he agrees give him a reasonable amount of time to correct the faults (all at his own expense)"
- What if he offers to do the work personally? we think he'll screw it up just as much if not worse or is this a risk we have to take?
- He offered to come back over the phone a couple of days ago to fix the issues as long as we pay him for the dodgy plastering too. We are more concerned about the bathroom to be honest and getting that resolved.

[Bathfix Bob]

Its such a shame there's so many tradesmen who don't give a monkeys about the quality of their workmanship or that of their subbies, this job will be one of thousands that are ruined every year by these bodgers.

Snagging list
Small claim court
Issues
14 days to respond
Not happy

These are words that are not even in my vocabulary.

Sorry, not having a go at you jackal792, just letting off steam. I hope you get this resolved mate.

[mikethetile]

difficulty with this one is that he has taken all written proof that he has been paid and the job is his

remember in law if your not paid for a job the client cant claim damages they can only withhold payment, as hes already intimated that he will deny all , theres nothing to take him to small claims for

dont try and handle this yourself, he has stolen the reciept and probably the original quote from your home, there is no evidence that he was even there

hes done this before and knows the system

get a solicitor onto this without delay otherwise it could end up as an unholy mess and by the time you do seek advise it will be too late

[GirlRacerRed]

I've been reading this thread with interest. If the tradesman has taken items (i.e. receipts) that were not his to take (i.e. they're your receipts for materials you purchased, that he did not purchase) then effectively he has stolen from your house. If it were me, I'd report it to the police as it is theft. Those items were not his to take without your prior permission. And get on to a solicitor, this is going to be hard work and very messy.

[jackal792]

difficulty with this one is that he has taken all written proof that he has been paid and the job is his

remember in law if your not paid for a job the client cant claim damages they can only withhold payment, as hes already intimated that he will deny all , theres nothing to take him to small claims for

dont try and handle this yourself, he has stolen the reciept and probably the original quote from your home, there is no evidence that he was even there

hes done this before and knows the system

get a solicitor onto this without delay otherwise it could end up as an unholy mess and by the time you do seek advise it will be too late

Looking through some other stuff....

We have 2 receipts...
1 - For the underfloor heating from topps tiles presumably paid on his/one of his teams credit card
2 - A receipt for the halogen lights which are on his trade account!

On top of this he signed for 2 tile deliveries to the house while we were away!

He also dealt with our neighbour when they set the smoke alarm off.

Wondering now as GirlRacerRed said if we should contact the police....

As other people have said material receipts are fine for him to take but the receipt for what we paid should have remained.

[mikethetile]

at least you have proof he was there now you need proof you paid him

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

this guy sounds a right snake!!, so handle with care!!, i hate this sort!!

[mikethetile]

very slippery Dave

[jackal792]

Another twist..... Sounds as though they are going to issue a receipt from a company owned by one of lads working with the builder but not the main company that did the work. Really unsure where we stand with all this now....

[mikethetile]

make sure the reciept is from a company that is trading

when you say company do you mean ltd

did you employ this co.

do you have a contract with this co.

who are the directors, is one your builder

did you pay any money to this co.

will it still be trading ten minutes after issuing a reciept

this looks iffier by the minute

get proper legal advise asap and you want a reciept from the reciever of the money , no one else

[kilty55]

contact a solicitor and only deal with the main contractor not the sub contractors it sounds like a trick

[Top Gun]

Sounds like you need to get Dominic Littlewood from Cowboy Builders on the case!

[GirlRacerRed]

how did you pay this guy? cash or cheque?

[whitebeam]

It was cash Liz

[GirlRacerRed]

It was cash Liz

bugger

[jackal792]

The whole thing sounds like it its getting worse and worse... estimates come in around the £300 mark to fix the majority of the issues.

I imagine its going to cost more than that to get a solicitor involved...

We'll wait and see which company the receipt is issued from when it arrives... in the meantime we'll continue preparing the letter with the list of issues.

There are no sub contractors involved, they work as a trio.

[whitebeam]

The whole thing sounds like it its getting worse and worse... estimates come in around the £300 mark to fix the majority of the issues.

I imagine its going to cost more than that to get a solicitor involved...

We'll wait and see which company the receipt is issued from when it arrives... in the meantime we'll continue preparing the letter with the list of issues.

There are no sub contractors involved, they work as a trio.

So did the marks brothers but they were funny

[jackal792]

Phoned around and solicitors are v.expensive.