not happy

[bongo]

had a tiler in reg as a master craftsman .. told him i wanted show room finish and only the best work or dont take the job on 22 sq polished porcelain tiles.
floor was the best new floor i ever seen even he said so but the job still did not turn out good.
he chipped about 15 tiles removing spacers / he ended up taking out a number of tiles still lots chipped.
Left lots of spacers in the grout that i can see .. no way to get them out now everthing is sethard
has said he will fix the rest ... starting to run out of spare tiles now and that may mean a new batch number if i need to get more.
i feel i should not pay him and let him go as i can't spend anymore of my time checking his work ... was looking forward so much for this job to be well done ... was sure i was getting the best ... good tilers are rare.
How do you guys feel .. should i just dump him ... need to call an end to this.

[jay]

might help if you register its free and you will get more lookers its hard to judge this one best if you can post some pics then we know what we are dealing with doesnt sound the best

[mikethetile]

go easy mate, dont jump from the pan into the fire

the defination of a master craftsman is someone who has taught the trade to others, so I can describe myself as a master decorator but not a master tiler untill I train someone up

being a master tradesman doesnt mean that your at the top of your game

the mistakes he has made are very basic and not what you would expect from an experianced tiler

if the floor has come out well I would get him to rectify the faults at his expense, so pay him on completion the amount agreed less the extra tiles and adhesive you will have to buy

[kilty55]

hmm,i dont think you should not pay him ,yes he has made asome basic errors but you say the floor is laid well apart from that and that he is fixing his mistakes

as long as he remedies his mistakes at no extra cost to yourself then all should be fine?

[kilty55]

maybe i read this wrong when you say the best new floor do you mean the sub floor

[bongo]

Sorry should have said the floor was great he was going to lay the tiles on .. better reg so i can explain more later.
I think his work standard is lacking ... lets put it this way i feel i could have done it better but then i would not be a hurry and time is not money to me with respect to this project.

[Billy Hunt]

How do you chip tiles removing spacers?
Whats he using to remove them with.?

[mikethetile]

How do you chip tiles removing spacers?
Whats he using to remove them with.?

a pick axe

[hillhead]

Sounds ridiculous chipping tiles on spacer removal,could he not have sunk them easier i wonder!

[andy allen]

thats why i never use spacers on floors

[Fred]

Pay the man, learn and move on, life is too short.

[david campbell]

need pics to give a proper opinion

[Pebbs]

Bongo, you really need to post some photographs, because as its reading at the moment, its giving me the impression its the worst floor tiling job in the world, and I am imagining you were hanging over the tilers back whilst he was doing the work. That in itself is giving me the raving hump, so prove me wrong show us the photographs, and lets have a look, before commenting. I dont know how much if any you have paid to your tiler, already, and Im hoping your not going to tell me you havent given him a penny so far, as it sounds like he is trying to rectify your concerns.

Pebbs

[deanotile]

you have to give the man the opportunity to rectify the problems before you start saying you are not going to pay for the work he has carried out.

[bongo]

As a customer when you hire a professional you expect to get a professional finish first time.
I was looking for a top class job not a cheap job not a quick job the price was never going to be an issue but the quality of the finish was important to me and i made that very clear.
I have done tiling myself floor and walls and while i am far from an expert the jobs i did turned out pretty good ... in other words they were to a standard that i would accept in my home.

The fact the guy was willing to fix the problems does not make him a better tiler just a willing one.
They guy as person was ok but the guy as professional did not fit the standard required as stated.
Before anybody starts to think i am some kind of nit picking crank let me reasure you i am far from it.
Its my home and i wanted a quality finish that i was willing to pay for is that so wrong?
By the way i never stood over anybody and i don't feel a need to do that - thats why i was willing to pay a professional.
As a professional why would somebody watching you cause concern? would you change your work standard if somebody was looking at you?

Anyway getting back to the problems .. lippage, chipped tiles, hollow tiles, sinking tiles, the need to replace lots of them.

On the plus side he made an effort to fix the problems his standards are not the same as mine and i don't doubt he did his best.
I am not knocking the person just the workmanship .. he was paid .. would i use him again No!
Did he learn from this .. i think so.. what did he learn? think long and hard before you take on a job that demands a quality finish to a standard that you as a tiler would only accept in your own home.
Did i learn from this ? you bet ... what did i learn? . don't doubt my own work standard and that a professional might not be as professional as i am.

Tiles were 600 x 600 polished porcelain tiles.
Spacers were Raimondi type Tile Spacers (see youtube)

Sorry no pics unless you would like to see a pile of broken tiles or hear what a hollow tile sounds like or feel the pain of lippage from porcelain tile on your tender feet ... sorry just a bit of drama to end my post.
Its just a nightmare ending and most likely one i will end up paying for and fixing in the end myself.. the joys of the experience of life.

[TT Tiling]

yep get him to refix ,move on

[doug boardley]

As a customer when you hire a professional you expect to get a professional finish first time.
I was looking for a top class job not a cheap job not a quick job the price was never going to be an issue but the quality of the finish was important to me and i made that very clear.
I have done tiling myself floor and walls and while i am far from an expert the jobs i did turned out pretty good ... in other words they were to a standard that i would accept in my home.

The fact the guy was willing to fix the problems does not make him a better tiler just a willing one.
They guy as person was ok but the guy as professional did not fit the standard required as stated.
Before anybody starts to think i am some kind of nit picking crank let me reasure you i am far from it.
Its my home and i wanted a quality finish that i was willing to pay for is that so wrong?
By the way i never stood over anybody and i don't feel a need to do that - thats why i was willing to pay a professional.
As a professional why would somebody watching you cause concern? would you change your work standard if somebody was looking at you?

Anyway getting back to the problems .. lippage, chipped tiles, hollow tiles, sinking tiles, the need to replace lots of them.

On the plus side he made an effort to fix the problems his standards are not the same as mine and i don't doubt he did his best.
I am not knocking the person just the workmanship .. he was paid .. would i use him again No!
Did he learn from this .. i think so.. what did he learn? think long and hard before you take on a job that demands a quality finish to a standard that you as a tiler would only accept in your own home.
Did i learn from this ? you bet ... what did i learn? . don't doubt my own work standard and that a professional might not be as professional as i am.

Tiles were 600 x 600 polished porcelain tiles.
Spacers were Raimondi type Tile Spacers (see youtube)

Sorry no pics unless you would like to see a pile of broken tiles or hear what a hollow tile sounds like or feel the pain of lippage from porcelain tile on your tender feet ... sorry just a bit of drama to end my post.
Its just a nightmare ending and most likely one i will end up paying for and fixing in the end myself.. the joys of the experience of life.

maybe you should have researched your tiler better, did you get referals, recommendations, see any of his work for past customers??

[andy tiler]

hi bongo you should of asked him for references! and followed them up, and had a look at his standard of work b4 he started.,i always give potential clients, names and addresses of exhisting customers so they can check out my standard of work.sounds like youve learned the hard way.im a nightmare when anyone works on my hse, it is hard to get decent tradesmen

[mikethetile]

your absolutly right in what you say Bongo

if people spent as much time researching a tradesman before employing one as they do after they lash up, these characters would have to earn their money elsewhere

as unemployment rises the situation gets worse and its harder for householders to sort the wheat from the chaff

if the trades were regulated where only licenced traders could operate then you can expect a professional to be just that , a qualified competant tradesman with standards

untill that day its buyer beware, you wouldnt buy a car without checking it out, why be so slack with your most valuable asset, your home

[timeless john]

Hi bongo and welcome to the Tilers Forum.
A Professional can be described as someone who is engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation ie a footballer can be called a professional even if he plays for Sunderland! And as you are no doubt aware here at Newcastle we have 52,000 who could do a better job.
Without pictures it is impossible to be able to provide a 'tilers' opinion on the standard of work you have had completed, however we can all empathize with your situation and look forward to further updates in what I hope will be a satisfactory outcome.

[bongo]

Thanks lads while i understand why one tiler would stick up for another the true light would be to see the damage that bad workmanship would do to the trade ... this is your trade .. its how you feed your family and while its nice to see people stick up for each other the end result is a loss to your trade.
As i stated at the start I have no problem paying a man what his skill is worth to me ... its the quality i want and i will pay a premium for that and be happy to do it ... but not for shoddy work.
I did all the normal research and looked at all the pics of his former work and his words on his ads did ring a bell with me that he understood people are seeking quality.
He is registered as a master craftsman and reading their website they look they hold high standards.
Where am i now with the project?
Well just spent a lot of hours with the bolster chisel doing something i never want to do again.
I have a number of tiles up and will have to redo them myself as the adhesive did not take to the back of the tiles.
Also having problems removing the wax transit coating ...
I had a good look at this forum before i hired the tiler and even asked him to use the products i seen named here to do the install of the tiles but he said no need for that.
My suggestions were:
bal rapid flex adhesive!
nanoscrub to clean the wax
and Ultra Solv superior impregnating sealer.

The answer i got was no dont need all that.
Now i have friends phoning me asking me was the guy anygood as they want work done.
I can't lie to them can i? thats your damage right there!

I want to say to you guys who take pride in your work if you are conscientious, you will go far.
If you put your best efforts into your job and strive to do your job well and properly and your work is consistently good because you work hard to make it so.
Never do half a job or turn in work that of which you were less than proud.
people will notice your attention to detail and effort and pay for it.

Thanks again for all the comments.

[doug boardley]

whilst I can fully understand your disappointment Bongo, I feel as though you're tarring us all with the same brush, which to me is an insult to our profession. There are some damned good tilers about that would accept nothing less than a high quality turnout of their work, but unfortunately there are also some charlatans about, as in every profession/trade.Believe me when I say that we are not a club that stick up or each other when it comes to shoddy work, the tilers that practice sub standard work need to be ousted or taught diferent ways to improve their approach/aims. Hope you get a pleasing outcome eventually.

[jay]

not the best result
you have done your research into the adhesives ad other material why did the alarm bells not ring when the tiler suggested not to use what you recomended (not being smart just asking the question)
maybe if you asked for quotes from people on this forum you might of faired better
sorry to hear what you are doing to rectify your floor but if i can ask what material was used (as to why its not sticking to the tile)as i stated at the start of your post pics would help as to make a fair judgement of the work standard before i judge your tiler. maybe if you post some pics now we can advice on the steps to take in fixing the problem

[doug boardley]

I'm not nit picking here Bongo, but there seems to be a few inonsistencies here that maybe you can clariy for us
1) you say in your original post that he's chipped tiles by removing spacers and you feel as tho' you shouldn't pay him,
2) in post 15 you go on to list other faults such as lippage, sinking tiles, hollow tiles etc and state that you have paid him.
3) in post 15 you say that you have no pics available unless we want to see broken tiles, hear the sound of hollow tiles, feel the pain of lippage ( a photo would show lippage), yet in post 21 you say that you've just spent lots of hours with a hammer and bolster removing tiles, again photo's would've been beneficial to us.

As I say, I'm not nit picking, just seeking a bit of clarification.

[doug boardley]

thread moved to main tiling forum

[Bathfix Bob]

I was going to say where did this thread come from, where was it before?

[mikethetile]

I was a bit confused about the thread being moved about

we dont stand up for other tilers but untill we have pics of the work we reserve judgement, we do see pics of shoddy work on here and we go for the tilers wether they are members here or not

we all run our businesses to the standards you mention, we love our work so much we spend our evenings chatting about it and giving advise to others, we believe that by giving others the benefit of our experiance we will generally raise the game in tiling, most can do it they just need telling the right way from the wrong way

so without pics we wont condemn another tilers work, remember hes not here to defend himself

and as you were on here researching the job spec it was a good oppurtunity to browse your local members albums and ask them to quote you for the work

no tradesman refuses the clients spec unless that spec is wrong, so if you specify bal you will get bal and be charged accordingly

what concerns me now is that you can lift the tiles clean off the adhesive , did the adhesive come out of a tub or was it bagged

[GirlRacerRed]

I was going to say where did this thread come from, where was it before?

it was in the Guest Area Bob. that forum doesn't get much traffic and hence people miss some posts, so Doug moved it to the main Tiling Forum where more people can view it and chip in with their advice

[bongo]

Lads I will do my best to answer the questions,

First i want to say i fully accept that there are many top class tilers in your profession as in all professions you get a few that are not as good you might expect.
I am trying to express myself as honest and as best as i can and do not want to offend anybody or tar any good tilers.
My tiler was not a bad person he just lacked the skill and the finesse to do the job right.
Re my research into adhesives and other material on this forum i went with his advice because he was meant to be the expert not me.
The list of material is what i would have went for if doing the job myself having done my research here but he said that the list i gave him would only be used in commercial premises and not in the home.
Regarding not paying him...why would you want to pay anybody for doing a bad job?
Regarding the photos not sure what your point is but from my end i dont think it would be fair to show his work and it would identify me and this post to him.
I decided it was best if i finished the job so i paid him before anymore damage was done ...things were getting worse not better.
From reading this forum i can see there is a sequence of how things are done ... he was skipping some simple ones and some that could have ever lasting damage.
The adhesive was bagged I don't want to name it for the same reason above but if you want to pm me i will tell you but please don't post the name on the forum the same goes for the pics.
Most of the work is sorted and the parts that are not i will have to live with i guess.
He did sort most of the lippage and some hollow and most of the badley chipped tiles but not all.
I did ask about the remaing hollow tiles and was told they will set over the next few days but that did not happen.
I will take some photos and let you guys see them via pm but i ask that you do not post them.
Thanks again.

[GirlRacerRed]

bongo, you can't send pics via pm. why are you insisting on not naming the adhesive manufacturer? we have no problems in you disclosing which materials were used. usually, it helps us to determine whether the right materials were used for the job.

you've come here for information and advice from professional tilers yet you won't disclose useful information and show everybody pictures of the work that you think isn't up to scratch. the members of this forum will be unable to help you any further if this is the case. why do you not want the pictures posted? just in case the tiler in question sees them on here?

if you're unhappy with the work done by your tiler, call him back to fix it. and keep calling him back until you're satisfied. otherwise, he will not get the opportunity to learn from his mistakes.

GRR