Dodgy wall questions

[The Handy Manny]

Afternoon all,

Not sure there is a good answer to this but feel free to disagree

Bargain basement refurb of customers bathroom. They've bought the materials (gave advice, was mainly ignored) to replace bath, basin and WC. This is an ex council bungalow with a very small bathroom (took pics then left camera at job) with a 1700x700 bath which just fits into one half of the room. Customer has bought quite thick 300x300 tiles for the walls and 300x450 for the floor. Also bought a huge bucket of Unibond general purpose adhesive and grout despite asking not too!
So I've stripped everything except the WC and removed all the existing tiling around the bath and behind the sink/WC. This has revealed a heady combination of bare board and that cardboard wallboard with corrugated card inside. Not in terrible condition but I'd like to line them. Two problems I can see coming over the horizon are: Lining from floor to ceiling around bath creating an area too small for the bath. Lining above the bath level bringing the tiles too far over the bath to sort sealing well; Secondly the cost of WBP these days and if the customer will pay for it. If they won't is there anything I can do except pray?

Thanks from behind the sofa

[doug boardley]

if a job is worth doing, it's worth doing right. I'd be stripping the walls down to the bare studwork (assuming its stud walls) and reboarding it all with plasterboard/hardiebacker board, (both 12.5mm thick). This way you have a blank canvas and do the job justice. With regards to the floor, what is the existing substrate?

[GirlRacerRed]

and tell the customers you won't work with that awful adhesive/grout.

[The Handy Manny]

Doh taking the board off would be the obvious answer wouldn't it (goes to look for the wood in some trees).

Concrete floor with a nice hole dug for the previous bath trap too sit in !!

Think I may have to live with the adhesive as not enough time to travel to get anything else or order it for that matter

[doug boardley]

you want proper adhesive and grout not the combo stuff

[united]

if a job is worth doing, it's worth doing right. I'd be stripping the walls down to the bare studwork (assuming its stud walls) and reboarding it all with plasterboard/hardiebacker board, (both 12.5mm thick). This way you have a blank canvas and do the job justice. With regards to the floor, what is the existing substrate?

I agree with Doug, strip the walls and re board

With regards to the addy - That Unibond stuff is expensive for what it is, you will get some good cement based addy from a tile shop for the same if not less money

[Scott]

Those tiles are too big for the adhesive im. Please heed the advice given above, if its worth doing etc.

Even if it takes you longer, you may not make as much money but learn from it and use that knowledge in the future.Good luck with it

[GirlRacerRed]

Is there a Tile Giant anywhere near you Handy Manny?

[The Handy Manny]

Is there a Tile Giant anywhere near you Handy Manny?

Yes and no! Not near me or on the right side of the city for me or the job. Think I might have to go across and get something decent as I assume B&Q, Buildbase or Homebase are unlikely to have anything good? Drat. BTW when did WBP get so expensive? Been out of paying for materials for too long!

[GirlRacerRed]

If you can get to a B&Q that stocks Buildfix, you should be able to come across a whole range of powdered adhesives, grouts and sealants. Mapei make the Buildfix range and it's good stuff. I use it when I can't get to Tile Giant for Mapei gear.

[david campbell]

b&q stock buildfix adhesive and grouts,they are made by mapei and are good to work with the packaging is also similar

[GirlRacerRed]

b&q stock buildfix adhesive and grouts,they are made by mapei and are good to work with the packaging is also similar

beat ya to it

[The Handy Manny]

LOL that's excellent to know as there's a B&Q and the others within 5 minutes of the job

[doug boardley]

what are you wanting the WBP for HM?

[The Handy Manny]

what are you wanting the WBP for HM?

To line the walls. Not WBP?

[The Handy Manny]

Ah sorry misread your original post. Strip back to stud and then line with new plasterboard. That makes more sense now. What would you suggest priming the board with? SBR?

[doug boardley]

To line the walls. Not WBP?

no mate, use hardiebacker 500 or 12.5mm plasterboard. If necessary place noggins at strategic points in the stud wall to carry weight of fixtures/fittings

[doug boardley]

Ah sorry misread your original post. Strip back to stud and then line with new plasterboard. That makes more sense now. What would you suggest priming the board with? SBR?

depends on the adhesive you use, but sbr (diluted) will cover for most adhesives. No need to prime if you use hardiebacker tho' (just tape the joints)

[Phil Hobson]

From what I'v heard and seen,a lot of the ply (so called exterior, resin bonded ) is rubbish anyway. As Doug says, what is it for? Deffo lose the tubbed stuff

[The Handy Manny]

Right. Spoken to customer and I think she'll go for lining. Think she understands that anything else is daft however cheap she wants to be. Whilst I am quite happy to 'donate' as much time as is needed for a good job, at the moment donating materials is not much of an option

So from what you good people have advised and what I've seen elsewhere my current intention is to break walls down to studs and re-line with standard 12.5 plaster board (can't get the money for backer board and it's not that readily available locally) prime and tile merrily away Hopefully find some proper adhesive and grout at one of the local merchants too.

Thanks all

[The Handy Manny]

Thanks for all the advice folks. Has been a long day but got a lot done. Walls were back to plaster at end of yesterday so today removed said plaster and boarded out. All new to me today but fairly pleased with the result so far:









Thanks again

[GirlRacerRed]

Manny, were you able to find the Buildfix products in B&Q yet?

[The Handy Manny]

In theory yes, i.e. the website let me reserve them at the one on the other side of town, and no, they rang and said there were all out of stock. The one round the corner had none. At least they rang so for now I've got powdered unibond tile on floors adhesive and grout from Homebase as today took far too long and I'll sort something out for the walls. Not perfect but a start.
I'd forgotten how shoddy this age of house was. Once the wall was stripped there was all of 1 1/2" studs at 600mm centres, so added to them and did as best I could with the board. Was challenging getting the two layers of board of without landing in the next room. The board you can see with the egg box on is the back of the next room!

Thanks for your help

[The Handy Manny]

So here's the finished article. Job didn't finish well as fell out with the customer when she refused to pay. However I learnt lots and think she got a great bathroom for a very low budget.

[GirlRacerRed]

why did she refuse to pay Manny? Did you get your money?

[The Handy Manny]

Because of some of the finish I did to area's I hadn't quoted for, and did with my own materials, as she was going to do them but didn't bother. Also minor snagging which I would have done if she hadn't been quite so rude and threatening. As it was I very much got the impression she never intended to pay what was agreed. Seemed to think that £400 got you a £5k job and blamed me for faults with materials she supplied.
In the end I got most of it in cash (after offering to remove goods to the value of etc) and some more in a cheque with her guarantee card details on the back so hopefully that won't bounce! Seems that this is how she treats all trades and never uses the same person twice, I assume cos they won't come back.

[GirlRacerRed]

Because of some of the finish I did to area's I hadn't quoted for, and did with my own materials, as she was going to do them but didn't bother. Also minor snagging which I would have done if she hadn't been quite so rude and threatening. As it was I very much got the impression she never intended to pay what was agreed. Seemed to think that £400 got you a £5k job and blamed me for faults with materials she supplied.
In the end I got most of it in cash (after offering to remove goods to the value of etc) and some more in a cheque with her guarantee card details on the back so hopefully that won't bounce! Seems that this is how she treats all trades and never uses the same person twice, I assume cos they won't come back.

well if you don't get paid what you are owed, offer to do the snagging in return for full and final payment. if she still refuses to pay, take her to small claims court my good man. there's too many of these types of people popping up now, taking good, decent, hardworking tradesmen for a ride.

bad customers and cowboy tradesmen are just ruining it for everybody else

[The Handy Manny]

Thanks for that. I already lost a bit to get anything out of her so won't be going back but I will take her to small claims if the cheque bounces!
Way I look at is there were some items needing a little work which she would have got done if she'd been reasonable and polite. However for the money (and I didn't try and charge for the extra days work due to state of walls and changes of mind) she got a really nice looking bathroom, especially considering the bargain basement materials she supplied (note to all customers buy a bath panel that fits the bath you've bought and is the same length as it). No doubt if she employed a time served plumber, plasterer, spark and tiler she would have got a better job but as she said when she first rang me she wanted the job 'cheap as'!
Any hoo she's already on Rated People looking for some one else to scam.

[GirlRacerRed]

Onwards and upwards Manny. don't let this bad egg taint your tiling career

[The Handy Manny]

Cheers, i won't. Learnt lots for next time but was also the best I've done