Speed estimates Please

[Graham Bright]

I dont want to go over old ground cause I know you guys answer questions on speed all the time and the general response is "Do the job correct and the speed will come"

However, can I give you an example of a bathroom and you guys reply with very roughly how many days you would expect it to take please.

The room itself is 14 m2 walls and roughly 3 m2 floor. Using 600x300 standard porcelain tiles 9mm thick.

The tiles are going straight bond (landscape) with the grout lines matching walls and floor.

There is a frame around the bath that needs to be tiled and a bot of box work on the opposite wall. All being finished with metal trim.

Nothing tricky really with the walls and there is nothing on the floor as only a vanity unit is going in. No pipes or WC etc.

The house is baically a gutted shell so there is no issues with using saws in the adjoining rooms.

THe frame and bath panel/boxing is just ply. The walls are plastered but not skimmed are are pretty flat.

Not sure I can tell you anything else.

Would you kindly estimate how long a job like this would take you please?

p.s I will answer any questions

[Abstract tiling]

3 days but dont go on every 1 elses estimates, estimate how long it might take you and if your unsure ad an extra day to make sure ?

[doug boardley]

what are the walls plastered with??

[Graham Bright]

Would ou estimate the same amount of time if you could only use a wet cutter?

[Dan]

The firm I used to work for would strip a bathroom out that's about that size, everything out, then tile most of it to get the new suite back in, get the suite back in, tilethe rest, grout it, do all the final fixings and cleaning etc and we'd take a week. 2 men. Or a skilled tiler/plumber and a skivvy which was me, should I say.

Without the suite and plumbing I'd also say around 3 or 4 days for one man. It's a god send when you get flat walls to be honest so it might be nearer 3 and a bit for you perhaps?

[Graham Bright]

what are the walls plastered with??

just bonding, its just a browning coat with no finish

[Dan]

Would ou estimate the same amount of time if you could only use a wet cutter?

Probably not. Especially if the wet cutter is outside or somewhere else. It's a right maul running up and down stairs to cut tiles. Try to even just rent a Rubi from HSS Hire if you can't get one yet or whatever.

[doug boardley]

you're gonna ahve some prepping time though if your walls have a gypsum basecoat

[doug boardley]

just bonding, its just a browning coat with no finish

not a suitable substrate then

[Graham Bright]

not a suitable substrate then

Please can you explain why? Its just basic plaster as far as I am aware? Still learning all this stuff

[doug boardley]

gypsum basecoats hold too much moisture to tile onto, the only way round it is to skim the bonding/browning. But as you'll be using porcelain, these will be too heavy to tile onto skimmed plaster anyway. Sorry!

[Dan]

Does this sound like a dot and dab scenario then?

[diamondtiling]

Not dot and dab Dan, the boards need to be mechanically fixed in order to take the weight of the tiles.

[dock]

Plaster bonding does not have sufficient cohesive strength to support weight of tiling and adhesive.
Finishing plaster does have enough cohesive strength to support tile+ adhesive at 20Kg/M2 maximum.
If the finished article is somewhat heavier you may have to fix plasterboard (32Kg/M2) or cement based fibreboards(up to 50Kg/M2) through the browning and into the structure behind

[Ken Bruty]

I would allow 3-4 days for the tiling + whatever the preparation takes

[Dan]

Sounds like a bigger job than 3 days then to me.

[mikebidd]

It would probably take me 5 days But then it probably goes on expierence.

[CDS]

Day to prep walls, 2 days to tile, half a day to grout and silicone and half day for boxing - would allow 5 days in case of any problems and expect to out the door in 4 days. Would def hire a dry cutter as suggested - far less headaches and far quicker!!Chris

[david campbell]

tiling alone 3 days
prep work probably 2 days

[mz30]

Graham,if the area you are working is prepped to your satisfaction,then a good day to tile walls and another day to tile floor and grout up,if you have to prep yourself then i would say how longs a piece of string,doing prep work with all the materials you need can open up a multitude of sins,so can drag a medium sized job into a long job and headaches included.

Hope that helps mate

[Graham Bright]

Great answers guys. Really helped me a lot.

My story is that I am completely under estimating the time i said it would take. Which then leads me to another problem, I think I am also completely under charging for the work.

I said that I would do the above bathroom and also a seperated small toilet about 8m2 in 5 days. The builder who gave me the job plastered all the walls and asked me to go straight on top of that.

So a few issues that have kicked me in the nuts here.
Firstly 5 days into the job and I have only just finished the main bathroom. So I wanted ot gauge where I was on the speed against you guys.
Seecondly I have only charged £20 a m2 to the builder so assuming that little loo takes me another two days ill get £600 for a week and a halves work.
Lastly and most importantly - it looks like in my naivity and inexperience and just taking the builders word for it, I have tiled on top of a dangerous and unstable substrate, which is not only scary but totally gutting

[lcjohno]

Great answers guys. Really helped me a lot.

My story is that I am completely under estimating the time i said it would take. Which then leads me to another problem, I think I am also completely under charging for the work.

I said that I would do the above bathroom and also a seperated small toilet about 8m2 in 5 days. The builder who gave me the job plastered all the walls and asked me to go straight on top of that.

So a few issues that have kicked me in the nuts here.
Firstly 5 days into the job and I have only just finished the main bathroom. So I wanted ot gauge where I was on the speed against you guys.
Seecondly I have only charged £20 a m2 to the builder so assuming that little loo takes me another two days ill get £600 for a week and a halves work.
Lastly and most importantly - it looks like in my naivity and inexperience and just taking the builders word for it, I have tiled on top of a dangerous and unstable substrate, which is not only scary but totally gutting

To be honest mate it would have taken me about 4-5 days with the loo but if your new to tiling i think its best to charge by m2 rather than day rate cos its not the builders fault if it takes longer. I'm talking from experience cos i lost money on my early jobs but you cant charge the customer cos it takes you longer. With time your speed will increase plus you'll know how long things take you to do.

[doug boardley]

are you going to tell your builder about the substrate?

[Graham Bright]

Yeah I know the speed will come and I am willing to stick in there. I have completed a good few jobs now and am yet to have an unsatisfied customer, I have already had 2 recomendations so I know I am moving in the right direction. I want to be a good professional so will stick with it and learn as much as I can.

Yes - been round there briefly earlier to check the tiles. I also rang the builder and he is going to take responsibility should the worst happen.
I checked the tiles and they would not come off, I was basically hanging on them and they didnt budge so at this point I am reasonably happy that they will stay up long term.

That being said I have learnt three massive lessons this week. And will not be making any of those errors again.

So a positive end to the week ready for the world cup

[Graham Bright]

To be honest mate it would have taken me about 4-5 days with the loo but if your new to tiling i think its best to charge by m2 rather than day rate cos its not the builders fault if it takes longer. I'm talking from experience cos i lost money on my early jobs but you cant charge the customer cos it takes you longer. With time your speed will increase plus you'll know how long things take you to do.

Yeah, mainly been doing by the meter as I appreciate its no one elses fault I a slow.

[Dave]

You might get some guys who say you can tile to base coats but as stated already it is not structurally stable enough to support tiles.

If you tile to it then if it fails then you will be held responsible, It might go a long time and look OK but all that will be holding it up will be the grout..

The correct method is a top coat to close the surface structure and add the ability to tile it.

[Graham Bright]

You might get some guys who say you can tile to base coats but as stated already it is not structurally stable enough to support tiles.

If you tile to it then if it fails then you will be held responsible, It might go a long time and look OK but all that will be holding it up will be the grout..

The correct method is a top coat to close the surface structure and add the ability to tile it.

Yes, point very much taken - defo wont happen again thats for sure. I have just hung on these with all my body weight so I am fairly confident at this stage, but thanks to the forums I am slowly avoiding a life of pain

[deanotile]

if it was all good to go then a day and a half

[Sean fsy]

I would say mon/fri job specially if its a wooden floor. Boxing in takes times as does waiting for floor to set (if wooden) tiling the framework wont be a 5min job as will trying to match the floor tiles to the wall tiles as you will have to work out all the exact tile positions on the wall to allow floor to match up. use a rotary laser level and let it spin vertically round room and mark round the entire room floor and walls in one go instead of trying to do it by eye and a level.