Hi ya, i really need some help please

[flowerpot]

I am sorry this is my first post but I feel quite gutted at the moment so please help.

We have tiled over tiles in my mom and dads kitchen, all was going really well until today the tops row of tiles have well just sort of fell off? We were removing the excess adhesive ready for grouting.

When we take the tile off the wall, the adhesive is on the wall and none really on the tile? I am scared now that none of them have stuck but I am pretty sure they have.

I have used non slip cerafix adhesive, we did use a water tile cutter so the tiles may have been wet when we put them up? in fact it was raining a bit

Oh god please help, mom and dad will be coming home in week.

Does ready mixed adhesve take alot longer to dry? it has been since Friday.

What do i do? do i try and remove the next row down to see if they are lose too or leave them? they have been on a few days more than the top row.
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[Dan]

Hello flowerpot, welcome aboard www.TilersForums.co.uk. Stick around, I'm sure you'll like the place.

[nybor62]

what type of tile was they firstly this will help us determine if you used the right adhesive,
what size tile did you use any pics would help . you said you tiled over existing tiling did u clean them

[flowerpot]

They are just ceramic tiles, the brick type ones, not porcelain or anything.

Thank you for replying

[flowerpot]

Underground Bevel Gloss Wall Tile Cream (W)100 x (L)200 x (T)8mm Ceramic from B & Q

The tiles underneath were cleaned really well with sugar soap, we also made sure they we did not tile over the existing tile pattern

[Dan]

If the adhesive has stuck the wall and not the tile, and you say it was raining and you used a wet cutter, chances are the tiles were too wet.

I've not used the adhesive you used. But ready-mixed adhesive does need more time to 'go off' than a cement (bag) based one. It actually takes around 2 weeks to fully cure with most dispersion (ready mixed) adhesive brands, though grouting can be carried out in normal cases after 24 hours.

I'd leave the tiles another day. Any that have fell off or feel really loose, take off and re-fix.

If the adhesive has stuck to the wall okay, it proves it's not an issue with the existing tiles being dirty (or too dirty) thought it's always best to clean with sugar/soap and a good washing off to clear any grease from them. Just for future reference.

[nybor62]

cerafix adhesive is also from b&q made by dunlop i reckon.not an adhesive i would ever use ,but saying that would have thought it would stick them,its got to be the adhesive , powdered adhesives are much better and stronger. are the remaining tiles stuck ok

[Scott]

Hi and welcome.

The tubbed adhesive relies on water dispersion to set. With tiling on tiles there is no where for the moisture to go, hence it will take ages to dry. If the tiles were wet or dusty then the adhesive wont stick. Try moving some of the lower tiles and see if they are set.

Worst case will be take them off and clean off the adhesive with warm water and use a cement based adhesive and relay. Also did you do anything to the original tiles before laying the new ones?

[Scott]

Pah! Wrote mine ages ago and went to deal with kids. by then you all jumped in before me!

[nybor62]

are the original tiles ceramic as well

[nybor62]

Pah! Wrote mine ages ago and went to deal with kids. by then you all jumped in before me!

lol

[flowerpot]

Thank you everyone, I will get my b/f to see if the lower ones have set, I didn't do anything to the exixting tiles apart from clean them.

My boyfriend is removing the lose tiles at the moment and is not very happy because we are new to this and it took us a long time to lay them

[flowerpot]

are the original tiles ceramic as well

Yes they are

[Dan]

Chin up. You may find that if you need to use a bit of elbow grease to get some off it may be better to leave them on, the adhesive should harden. So just remove the really loose ones and refix those and leave for a couple of days.

As said above, due to it being tile on tile with a dispersion adhesive the moisture can only escape through the new grout joints. So it will take a lot longer to set than tiling onto plasterboard for example.

[flowerpot]

Thank you so much everyone, do you think i should go and buy some powdered adhesive for the ones we will be relaying?

[Dan]

It wouldn't hurt to be honest. And you know they will be set in hours (if it's quick-set) or at most 24 hours (if it's slow set).

[nybor62]

i would go and get some bal white star ,it will set quicker and his stronger hope you resolve this soon
a powdered adhesive would be even better

[Scott]

Will ensure its finished before the parents get back.

[flowerpot]

i would go and get some bal white star ,it will set quicker and his stronger hope you resolve this soon
a powdered adhesive would be even better

I think i would prefer to get a powdered grout and the white start looks to only be in a tub?

[Dan]

Yeah white star is a tubbed adhesive. Opt for a cement-based adhesive, and a separate cement-based grout.

Don't mix too much at any one time as both can start going off in the bucket. If this does happen, don't add more water and assume that'll work because it wont. Once cement starts to cure you can't add more water. Though it might look okay again if you do, the chemical reaction already started when you added the first lot of water and adding more doesn't start the reaction again. If that makes sense. (Not had my 4th coffee of the day yet)

[flowerpot]

Yeah white star is a tubbed adhesive. Opt for a cement-based adhesive, and a separate cement-based grout.

Don't mix too much at any one time as both can start going off in the bucket. If this does happen, don't add more water and assume that'll work because it wont. Once cement starts to cure you can't add more water. Though it might look okay again if you do, the chemical reaction already started when you added the first lot of water and adding more doesn't start the reaction again. If that makes sense. (Not had my 4th coffee of the day yet)

Brilliant thank you, I am off to topps tiles after work, will BAL Mosiac fix be good enough? or Bal CTF3?

I do have BAL powdered grout

[flowerpot]

I only need a little bag, the other tiles seemed to have set

[Dan]

I'd rather let the guys and gals who are tiling for a living advise you on the actual product. I don't tile now and haven't for years and I could be a bit out of date.

I think BAL Rapid Set (a small bag) is the one you need, but please wait for others to confirm or give the shop a quick call before you set off.

[flowerpot]

Ok then thanks, he has just removed one from further down, it did come off but not as easy as the top row, and the adhesive was just slightly gooey rather than wet, i don't know whether we should just start again? I feel like crying

[Dan]

Don't worry. Leave the ones on now that are not coming off on their own. The adhesive still being gooey proves it's not fully set yet, which it will do in a day or two at the most. Re-fix ones that have come off, and grout the lot in one go 2 days before they're back.

I'm sure they'll be really pleased with what you've done for them. And I bet you've saved them a small fortune doing it yourself.

[GirlRacerRed]

I'm not a pro tiler, but how long ago did you start sticking the tiles?

[flowerpot]

God you are so nice on this forum thank you

The tiles started to be fixed on Weds/Thurs last week

[GirlRacerRed]

God you are so nice on this forum thank you

The tiles started to be fixed on Weds/Thurs last week

my concern is if the adhesive is still not setting after 4 days, you may find you'll be able to pull the tiles off with enough force anyway. tile on tile is not usually recommended unless it's an absolute necessity. and the adhesive you're using for tiling on tile isn't the best.

i'd be inclined to pull all the tiles off, soak off all the tubbed adhesive (literally just submerge them in water and rub the adhesive off) and then start over with some adhesive that is specially designed for what you want to do.

do you have a Tile Giant store near to you?

[flowerpot]

I'm going to have to start again all the tiles are coming off the wall with not much force at all and there's no adhesive on the tile at all, only on the wall.

I've been reading a lot of people have had the same problem with Cerafix tubbed adhesive.

My boyfriend is not happy to say the least

[faithhealer]

welcome to the forum