Tile failure due to dusty backs

[steve tyler]

Has anyone out there had a similar experience...i have just finished a bathroom in a 25x40 ceramic on new plasterboard and they are falling off (12 at last count). I used the same sticky i've used for years, and never had a problem with it.
The tile is called "Atrusci Beige" and is made by a Spanish company called "Certica". The customer has since made me aware of a fine, virtually undetectable dust layer on the back of the tiles which appears to be the cause, but naturally the manufacturer is denying any responsibility....

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

[paulyoung666]

would you expect a note on the box saying ' wipe with damp rag before applying adhesive ' , i am not sure i would to be honest .............

[timeless john]

Is it a red biscuit tile and did you use a tubbed adhesive?

[basshunter]

Its hard enough without these types of things happening.Let us know how you get on legally

[steve tyler]

Its a white biscuit tile and yes i used a tub adhesive...Palace Supergrip

[steve tyler]

Thanks Paul, you are not the first fixer to say that..if i could only get the supplier to admit it....

[steve tyler]

thanks basshunter, really dont want to go down that road, but looks like i might have to....

[doug boardley]

sorry to rock the boat, but imo, it's in a tilers remit to check for dust on back of tiles

[steve tyler]

i agree to an extent doug, but this dust layer is is not visible and only comes off on your hand if you wipe the back..how many fixers do you know that would deem it necessary to do that?

[doug boardley]

[QUOTE=steve tyler;342811]i agree to an extent doug, but this dust layer is is not visible and only comes off on your hand if you wipe the back..how many fixers do you know that would deem it necessary to do that?[/QUOTE]
I know at least one

[steve tyler]

are you seriously telling me that you check the back of every tile you fix...i'm impressed doug...

[doug boardley]

are you seriously telling me that you check the back of every tile you fix...i'm impressed doug...

it takes no time, lift and check, then twist and stickit's the way i was taught and it's just 2nd nature after nearly 30 years

[Dave]

A tile of that size should really have cement based adhesive used..and i back skim tiles to make sure of good contact..

IMO it is fixer error..you check to see what coverage you are getting and alter your fixing method to gain this good coverage.. as i said i back skim to make sure..

[paulyoung666]

Thanks Paul, you are not the first fixer to say that..if i could only get the supplier to admit it....

i fear that you have took my post the wrong way ...........

are you seriously telling me that you check the back of every tile you fix...i'm impressed doug...

you would only need to check the first tile of every job ..............

[steve tyler]

Doug i do understand what you are saying, and after 37 years of fixing its second nature to me also to ensure that the material i am using is securely fixed. My point is that this layer is of the same colour as the tile back and does not fall off when the tile is picked up, its more like a v fine grit and i therefore did not detect it. I have not encountered this situation since the days of the old Langley zinzig range, and i believe it should not occur on a product that really does not dust anywhere in its fitting process and i just want to know if anyone else has fallen foul of this kind of thing...

[steve tyler]

sorry paul, i did misunderstand your original post, my point is that not all these tiles are loose, so in reality you would need to check each tile individually and that cant be right can it?

[steve tyler]

Dave i spoke to the tech dept at Palace Chemicals and they said that given that the surface was new and flat that their tub gear would be adequate to fix a 25x40 tile, although at the upper limits. Coverage was absolutely fine and most of the tiles are securely fixed but the customer is rightly not prepared to accept a job where more tiles could potentially fail...i really just want to see if anyone else has suffered a similar prob...

[doug boardley]

Doug i do understand what you are saying, and after 37 years of fixing its second nature to me also to ensure that the material i am using is securely fixed. My point is that this layer is of the same colour as the tile back and does not fall off when the tile is picked up, its more like a v fine grit and i therefore did not detect it. I have not encountered this situation since the days of the old Langley zinzig range, and i believe it should not occur on a product that really does not dust anywhere in its fitting process and i just want to know if anyone else has fallen foul of this kind of thing...

this could be caused by friction in transit, and statically loose bonded to the biscuit of the tile

[murf]

Tubbed adhesive is rubbish, in my opinion and can only lead to trouble. O.K you might get away with it on a lot of jobs but it wont stand up to any kind of issue with the substrate or in your case, with the tile itself.

[Dave]

Sorry steve.. but IMO it is fixer error.. dusty tiles are common especially with ceramics and i know a few fixers who all back skim tiles with adhesive to make sure they get proper contact with the adhesive bed.

It doesn't matter how long a tiler has been tiling it could be 30 yrs of doing it wrong.. I do hope you get a glimpse of joy from the manufacture but really steve it is down to you mate.

I don't like to sound harsh, so don't take it that way.. but a fixer really should check what he/she is fixing first.

[diamondtiling]

Tubbed adhesive? you were asking for trouble just by using it, its a cop out for an easy life, it is for DIY only.
As above regarding back skimming, how many tiles did you lift to check for coverage


Nicobond invented that damn stuff in the late 50's, it was purely to aid the DIY market but was adopted by 'pro' tilers. Tiles had been fixed for thousands of years earlier with no apparent problems. Just have a walk around Rome to see their superb mosaics, not a tub of ready mixed in sight.

[paulyoung666]

Tubbed adhesive? you were asking for trouble just by using it, its a cop out for an easy life, it is for DIY only.
As above regarding back skimming, how many tiles did you lift to check for coverage


Nicobond invented that damn stuff in the late 50's, it was purely to aid the DIY market but was adopted by 'pro' tilers. Tiles had been fixed for thousands of years earlier with no apparent problems. Just have a walk around Rome to see their superb mosaics, not a tub of ready mixed in sight.

it was this very site that made my mind up to use mapei p9 instead of tub adhesive , i am glad i did , at least till i try and get them off in a few years time that is

[timeless john]

Steve - after 37 years - tubbed adhesive on that size tile and not flat backed!
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4A4UnFi2C8"]YouTube - Jim Diamond I should have known better 1984[/ame]

[Gazzatile]

Ever tried sticking sellotape to dust sticks to every thing elsr but not dust.
Lots of tiles have this white dust check next time you open a box just wipe back of tile and see what you get.

[jay]

the white dust in question is called backwash read an article on it some time back has to do with the making of tiles cant remember exactly which part but problem is becoming more of an issue ill see if i can find article but i do remember back buttering helps as it in bad cases the adh will roll up behind the trowel as a warning sign