Help!: Lady needs advice please

[cobwebbe]

Hi, Having my bathroom tiled. Took off all the old tiles and surface underneath is uneven, patchy with some old adhesive still stuck, holes in plaster underneath, down to brick in places. Had several different tilers round, all have their own views on what can and can not be done. Some are saying that they want a plasterer round first, others say it can be retiled without replastering.

1. The latest one says that he can replaster one day and will then retile over the next 3 days. I am concerned about this, presumably the plaster needs to dry out fully first? I did query this with him, but he said as long as he covered it in "unibond" first it would all still stick. What do you think? Is it ok to tile on presumably a wet plaster finish?

2. Finally, it is an area of approx 22 m2 to be retiled, only about half of this needs the new plaster. What do you think would be a reasonable guide price/rough estimate? Quotes that I've got are in some cases £600 apart! Bath, sink etc not being moved. Only tricky bits are working around the window area. I am in Kent.

Thank you chaps.

[diamondtiling]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I would ditch all those tilers that gave that incompetent advice, your walls should be re-boarded with plaster board to give you a nice flat surface for your tiles. You do not need them to be skimmed as that will lower the weight that can safely be fixed.
the chap would recommended unibond needs to go and sit in a dark corner for a few years and contemplate his stupidity.

Pricing is not allowed in this forum.

Why not post the job here and I guarantee that we will find you a competent professional that is in your area.

[GirlRacerRed]

where abouts in Kent are you cobwebbe? We might be able to recommend a couple of members of this forum to come round and give you a quote. At least then you will be able to see whether what you've been quoted work and money wise already is realistic.

welcome to the forum

[cobwebbe]

Thank you for your replies. It's obviously quite expensive having a whole bathroom done, so it's a worry when I keep getting conflicting advice.

I am in Cliftonville, Margate. Thanks.

[macten]

No point replastering, would need to dry completely before tiling and can only hold 20kg/m2 of tile.

Removing loose render and dry lining is cheaper, gives a better surface to tile to, no drying times (apart from the 24hrs for the drywall adhesive to go off), and can hold 32kg/m2.

Plaster substrates should be primed with an acrylic based primer designed for tiles. If the unibond that was mentioned is pva then that is a big no no.

From what you have described as their intended course of action re substrate preparation then I would suggest they aren't actually tilers - well not professional anyway. With regards to not removing sanitary ware - personally that makes my job a little harder as you need to cut around them. Most would remove and replace as this works out quicker and gives a much better finish, it also won't cause problems if you were to change them at a later date.

We don't discuss prices on the public forums

[GirlRacerRed]

In that case then, we might know a man who can help

TilersForums.co.uk | Tile Forums | Tiling Forum - View Profile: stevee]

Steve is from Deal and his personal website is www.dealceramictiling.co.uk
and his telephone number is 07855 846032

give him a call and tell him you had his details after searching on TilersForums.co.uk

[cobwebbe]

Thanks Macten, that's very helpful. I think we've had a few cowboys......

Didn't realise when I posted that you couldn't give price guides, but do understand now.

[cobwebbe]

Thanks GirlRacerRed, I'll liaise with the other half and give Steve a call.

[diamondtiling]

Just as an after thought, have you seen any work that these guys have done, can you ring anyone to ask how the work was finished?
I only ask because you are at the crucial stage of handing over a sizeable amount of money and we would hate to see your job ruined and your money wasted.

[mikethetile]

Hi cobbwebe

with the others, avoid those so called tilers and avoid a lot of potential grief

basin and cistern need to be tiled behind not around

and welcome to tf

[Colour Republic]

Sorry to give even more conflicting advice.

It isn't always necessary to re-board a room and by doing so could cause some implications.

You should only have to re-board if your tiles are over a certain weight or the existing plaster is in such a poor state that it has lost its integrity.

You can plasterboard in a few different ways.
1) Remove the existing off stud walls (timber) and replace 2) dot and dab new plasterboard to an existing plastered brick wall or 3) remove plaster back to brickwork and then dot and dab new plasterboard.

You say the bathroom suite is not moving, does this mean you are keeping the existing suite or your are replacing it and it's is going in the same location?

Any walls that are in the bathroom and are timber stud work, plasterboarded and then skimmed - I would remove the plasterboard, replace with new and tile straight onto.

Any walls which are solid brick and then plastered - I would repair any damaged areas then re-skim, providing that a) the existing plaster has not lost its integrity and b) the weight of your tiles allow it. The plaster needs to be fully dry before you proceed with tiling (this can be anything from a few days to over a week). The benefit of this is that the bathroom suite can go back in the original location without the need for plumbing services to be altered = cheaper

If the plastered walls have lost their integrity then sadly the walls will need to be taken back to brick. This is quite a messy job. You then have two choices 1) the walls are floated and skimmed - the benefit of this is you have a nice solid wall and fixtures and fittings can be soundly fixed. The downsides are - this can take an age for the walls to dry out and could not be tiled for 3-4 weeks sometimes longer and there are weight restrictions on the type of tiles that can be installed.

I’m not a big fan of dot and dabbing plasterboard over existing plaster as it will make your room smaller, you may have to alter the plumbing services and in addition it can cause problems when it comes to fixing fixtures/fittings/basins to the wall. If it was me and plasterboarding was the only option due to weight issues, I’d always opt for taking it back to the brickwork rather than dot and dabbing plasterboard over already plastered walls

[cobwebbe]

Thanks to everyone who has answered. This has helped a lot!

[diamondtiling]

Sorry to give even more conflicting advice.

It isn't always necessary to re-board a room and by doing so could cause some implications.

You should only have to re-board if your tiles are over a certain weight or the existing plaster is in such a poor state that it has lost its integrity.

You can plasterboard in a few different ways.
1) Remove the existing off stud walls (timber) and replace 2) dot and dab new plasterboard to an existing plastered brick wall or 3) remove plaster back to brickwork and then dot and dab new plasterboard.

You say the bathroom suite is not moving, does this mean you are keeping the existing suite or your are replacing it and it's is going in the same location?

Any walls that are in the bathroom and are timber stud work, plasterboarded and then skimmed - I would remove the plasterboard, replace with new and tile straight onto.

Any walls which are solid brick and then plastered - I would repair any damaged areas then re-skim, providing that a) the existing plaster has not lost its integrity and b) the weight of your tiles allow it. The plaster needs to be fully dry before you proceed with tiling (this can be anything from a few days to over a week). The benefit of this is that the bathroom suite can go back in the original location without the need for plumbing services to be altered = cheaper

If the plastered walls have lost their integrity then sadly the walls will need to be taken back to brick. This is quite a messy job. You then have two choices 1) the walls are floated and skimmed - the benefit of this is you have a nice solid wall and fixtures and fittings can be soundly fixed. The downsides are - this can take an age for the walls to dry out and could not be tiled for 3-4 weeks sometimes longer and there are weight restrictions on the type of tiles that can be installed.

I’m not a big fan of dot and dabbing plasterboard over existing plaster as it will make your room smaller, you may have to alter the plumbing services and in addition it can cause problems when it comes to fixing fixtures/fittings/basins to the wall. If it was me and plasterboarding was the only option due to weight issues, I’d always opt for taking it back to the brickwork rather than dot and dabbing plasterboard over already plastered walls

Bit confusing there Rob, no-one is suggesting the bad walls are just dot and dabbed with new boards, that would be a waste of time and money. I take it as given that the bad plaster or boards would be removed.

[nybor62]

diamondtiling spot on could,nt agree more

[stevee]

thanks GRR, first conatct with cobwebbe in the next few days hopefully,steve

[Colour Republic]

I take it as given that the bad plaster or boards would be removed.

and there lies the rub, you may do as many tradesmen would do but a homeowner may not

But I agree after reading it back I hope it made sense what i was saying, that is some cases the plaster can be patched up without the need for extra works

[Dave]

I agree with Rob.. in that it can be patched and made suitable for tiling if using ceramics within the correct weight category ... not all rooms need to be dry lined.

But at least all options were covered and th e choice is there if needed..

[diamondtiling]

I was not disagreeing with Rob's advice, just trying to point out that sometimes surfaces need replacing, if I could save areas without affecting the integrity of the tiles then I would.

[silver]

Hi
Dont know if this adds to the top help you have already received from the forum ?

On many bathrooms I have done that sound similar to your scenario...when loose plaster is found in a few places when taking tiles off (Or even wallpaper off on occasion !!) there is usually more that is loose that hasnt actually come off and you havent found..you will find it by tapping around on the walls and you will hear it a hollow sound....that isnt your knuckle making that noise LOL. Its a bit like chasing rust on a car....you think you got it all then.... oh a bit more yet...each bit tends to loosen the next bit that you thought was solid.

For me at this point the job changes.....Its then an additional > one day to remove all the addled plaster down to brick or off wall studs, clean down etc...next day to D&D....I board over the window recess, this allows me to keep it all level and have no "TWIST" by using several boards around the window...I then cut out the window next day when its all gone off and solid and fit in the sill and recess's...Does any one else do that or is it me being abit crazy LOL ?

This does mean obviously all the suite comes out though.... but on a plus side. The tiler has a level solid tankable / tileable substrate, no skimming necessary (quicker than having plastering done) now allowing tile to tile (Water tight) joints floor to walls and in most cases eliminating lots of draft areas in old properties as there are usually huge gaps around pipes in etc from outside....and at sills

This way I can unltimately guarentee my work (and sleep at night) but it adds two days onto the job and plasterboard at £5 a sheet £6 for a bag of D&D adhesive.....This approach has also cost me jobs as there are then "other tilers" who follw me or go before me to quote who.... as you have found say its not necessary & have done loads like that. The customer sometimes only sees £ notes. I agree we all have to be careful....but they will end up paying twice for the same job ...second time done correctly.

My advice would be a full rip out and then you have piece of mind.

Degs

[stevee]

just been to look at davids walls,usual damage of plaster coming away in places/patches, fair bit of it is ok/not blown

they have light ceramics so ive recommened a plasterer come in and repair any blown areas and reskim where needed, which isnt a massive area

ill put the tanking in my quote for peace of mind

steve