Abit confused.

[mikebidd]

I recently finished my training course. And then for a little more practice i tiled my kitchen , toilet , and bathroom. Everyone who has seen it says it looks well including the extremly hard to please can pick a whole in anything mother in law!

Then through a friend off a friend i was offered a job tiling a bathroom in the phone call to the owner off the shop he said it was a splash back around the sink and a shower cubicle.

So i went down and started it on the sunday to find it was a walk in shower that had been fitted in by a "joiner " <---- i use that word very loosly.

My first problem was the adhesive supplied as it was wickes grout and adhesive all in one and looked a little moody i asked for them to take it back and id go get some ultra or something along those lines but they wouldnt so i ended up useing the wickes stuff i did read the back 4 or 5 times and it siad it applied wih all the regs.

So off i toodle doing the shower cubicle except for the plaster board walls that had been put up for it being extremly drunk. (the bubble on the spirit level being on the right hand side off the line.

it went up well. the window frame was a b..ger as the same "joiner" had put that in and it didnt line up at all. All the way throught the shower cubicle i was getting a bit worried as id noticed the wood forming the showers frame was either held together with plaster board nails or a screw here and there.

After id done that the customer decided that instead off just a splash back she would like half the wall doing all the way along so i did that too. Then the joiner decided that it would be easier if i tiled up the edged off the shower door as well. Which to start off with i said no as there was a 2 inch piece off wood then a 6 inch gap then a nother 2 inch bit off wood. Even tho he told me this would be fine i remembered from collage it wouldnt. So after a heated debate he said he would make it more solid. Too which he screwed a 9 mm piece off ply up it. I still said i wouldnt tile it as it flexed like bad when you shut the door. So it was left at that i went home.

Then yesterday i got a phone call from the owner off the job to say i didnt nned to go in for the morning as the "joiners" mate was going to finish the tiling off!!

Im gutted to be honust. The "joiner" stunk off booze i have done a bit off research and no one else will employ him. Even to the point off him bring 2 or 3 off his mates into the house for no reason at all (it was an elderly ladys house)

The joiner had also told the boss that we had had a few conflicts (which i can only remember one)
Just abit off a kick in the teeth for my first job. i only had to go back grout a bit more tidy up abit and polish up the tiles.

[doug boardley]

you get them Mike

[united]

Did they pay for the work you have done up to now?

[mikethetile]

im sory it went like that mike

its hard to walk away from a job but you need to learn to

that job was wrong from day one and what they wanted was a muppet to cover their mistakes

luckily your no ones muppet, they could see that which is why your off the job

chalk it up to experiance

youve had a lucky escape as its unlikely they will be paid and will be called back in to rectify, you will hear more about this job and none of it good

better luck with the next one

[Alan.P]

You should tell the owner that the reason for the conflict was that the joiner was trying to tell you how to tile, the fact that it wasn't up to standards but if that's what they want then ok, hope your getting paid for the work you've done.

Lesson learnt.

[mikebidd]

Payment wasnt really a problem the owner off it all said if my tiling hadnt off been up to scratch then he would have chipped me etc but it was and it was just a bad position to be in.

I have made my mind up off not wanting to work for myself tho now i think my confidence has taken abit off a kicking.

[jay]

chin up you will meet more like them in your travels stick to your standards

[united]

Payment wasnt really a problem the owner off it all said if my tiling hadnt off been up to scratch then he would have chipped me etc but it was and it was just a bad position to be in.

I have made my mind up off not wanting to work for myself tho now i think my confidence has taken abit off a kicking.

Don't let it get you down mate. Don't give up just yet, give it a few days then you will look back, know you have done the best you could in the situation and just move on.

[pjc]

Payment wasnt really a problem the owner off it all said if my tiling hadnt off been up to scratch then he would have chipped me etc but it was and it was just a bad position to be in.

I have made my mind up off not wanting to work for myself tho now i think my confidence has taken abit off a kicking.

Mike it shows with very little experience you had more idea than most so your confidence should be sky high just leave your number with the client and say ring me when it fails :Pete

[mikethetile]

dont let them upset you mike or put you off

you were right and know what your doing, thats what they didnt like

small firms can be very political. your best off out of it

just remind yourself you are a pro tiler and know best

weve all been there and learnt the lesson

sit back and enjoy whats going to unfold knowing your no part of it

move on to the next job and put it behind you

you are a properly trained tiler that has high standards

remember that

[whitebeam]

Stick to what you know is right, the joiner sounds like a pain in the butt

[timeless john]

dont let them upset you mike or put you off

you were right and know what your doing, thats what they didnt like

small firms can be very political. your best off out of it

just remind yourself you are a pro tiler and know best

weve all been there and learnt the lesson

sit back and enjoy whats going to unfold knowing your no part of it

move on to the next job and put it behind you

you are a properly trained tiler that has high standards

remember that

Unfortunately I don't think that either apply and this is may just be the first 'hit' that mikebidd will encounter.
There have been many posts where the inexperienced/trainee is not in a position to stand his ground through desperation/trying to please and in the end it may well be just another tiling nightmare.

[peckers]

I know it sounds hard as it was your first paying job since you completed your course, It sounds as though you were not completely convinced that the materials and substrates you were being asked to tile with was appropriate in the first place. you have been taught the knowledge you know and if you were un-sure in the first place then the issues should have been sorted out first. And if you werent happy with the materials and they were not suitable for the job then you shouldnt have started it.

We all have to start somewhere and experience comes with time and with that comes more knowledge, also you will learn more from private customers and builders about there attitudes and there views on the way they think it should be done! You will then come more familiar with different ways of how to handle them and to explain to them about your concerns over the way they want it done or the materials they have supplied. Once you have more experience with customers and tiling work you will be sure in your own mind that you are right. And if they dont want it done the right way then let some other mug do it and when it fails let them have the trouble that comes with it.

Now you have taken the right step in doing a course! Dont let this first job knock you down! Get back out there and do what you want to do tiling!
You have also joined the best tiling forum there is imo and there is a wealth of knowledge and free advice given on here by some very experienced and talented tilers!
Next time you go to look at a job and you are unsure of the materials/substartes tiles etc look the job over take notes and come back on here and ask questions the more info you can give the better the answers will be, but remember we cant see what you have been to see so we can only give the best info we can depending on the info you can give us! tell the customer you will forward him a quote and this will buy you some time to come on here and ask away!

Keep you chin up get back out there and except that job as a luck escape

[Ken Bruty]

Payment wasnt really a problem the owner off it all said if my tiling hadnt off been up to scratch then he would have chipped me etc but it was and it was just a bad position to be in.

I have made my mind up off not wanting to work for myself tho now i think my confidence has taken abit off a kicking.

Don't give up mate, we all have to suffer these at some point, unfotunately some can spot new tradesmen and seem to know how to play them to their advantage, you soon get to know how to weed them out. All the best

[faithhealer]

hi mike, you knew it was a bad job from the off, you knew the adhesive was wrong, you just didn't have the experience to deal with the 'nobs'. Not all people are like that, keep us updated with your next job

[Tecnik2000]

I've not read all the posts so excuse me if I repeat sound advise from others. The first & main thing is to look long & hard at the job before you agree anything,checking all areas that may affect you. Try & agree a firm price for specific works & get it on paper. Try to overcome problems you know will affect you with negotiation. I can't count the number of times you end up doing the "bidding of idiots" just to get your money.Life can suck , but there are two sides of the coin. Seems like you did the right thing..Keep it up One word comes to mind "Experience" you've just had some..Goodluck

[mikethetile]

Unfortunately I don't think that either apply and this is may just be the first 'hit' that mikebidd will encounter.
There have been many posts where the inexperienced/trainee is not in a position to stand his ground through desperation/trying to please and in the end it may well be just another tiling nightmare.

your being a bit harsh here tj

I agree that inexperiance lands us all in these situations at some time or other

with the old apprentice system you were pretty much protected from this as you would learn the job inside out before going on your own

which included dealing with muppets

things have changed and most of the learning is done after leaving training

I stand by what I say

mike is a pro tiler as he charges for his services and hes got himself trained prior to charging for the work.

unlike many and we see the results on here from time to time , where so called pros need their fingers breaking to prevent them picking a trowel up and inflicting their lack of skill on others

mike has just started out on his journey and needs to be encouraged by us older lot

he is a pro and has had proper training , the rest is experiance and on job learning

with encouragement and advise the future of tiling will be safe

the day I stop learning is when my toes have curled up and im in my box

[timeless john]

your being a bit harsh here tj

I agree that inexperiance lands us all in these situations at some time or other

I stand by what I say

mike is a pro tiler as he charges for his services and hes got himself trained prior to charging for the work.

mike has just started out on his journey and needs to be encouraged by us older lot

he is a pro and has had proper training , the rest is experiance and on job learning

with encouragement and advise the future of tiling will be safe

the day I stop learning is when my toes have curled up and im in my box

I have edited your response but not to affect its content.
I don't think that any of my original post was given to discourage mikebidd from a tiling career, however it would seem to me from his thread that he has tried to run before he can walk.
I fully understand the term professional in its use - engaged in an specified activity as ones main paid occupation - but i cannot relate to it in the context of this situation.
To protect the industry which we are in, the standards have to be maintained and improved and if that means being harsh with constructive input then that's a stance I take!

[Oli]

Well done for standing your ground mate, when the tiles had fallen off it would have been you they would have rung, not the joiner you told it wouldnt work.

Bit of a tip though, supply your own addy and grout, that way your in control, or at least find out what they will be supplying and if your not happy with it tell them to change it. Difficult to do sometimes I know, but at the end of the day when it goes wrong they will lay the blame at your door, people think that because wickes or whatever write on their label that its suitable for something, that its the bees knees.

I try to explain to people that there is a reason they only sell it at DIY sheds..... because its a DIY product!

[TF Ed]

becoming a professional takes time in any walk of life...

you have to be prepared to listen and learn from the people who have the experience and the knowledge that you dont yet posess. its no fun at times but you have to have a thick skin and concentrate on where your going to be rather than where you are now..

you have to practice, practice and keep practicing until what origionally is a concious effort becomes sub concious (second nature).....this wont happen on your first job after a tiling course..this will take a few years. its amazing what you think you know, and then 2-3 years go by and you realize how much more you have developed.

what i would say is dont look for the end of the line, the finishing point to your training. keep adding new goals, keep practicing, never stop learning thats the key to progressing, enjoying and becoming a professional.....

i actually like it when people critisise me..it used to knock me because i was insecure but i look at it now, not as a challenge from the person who critisises me but as a way of becoming stronger and more equipped to deal with my weaknesses.

who cares whether people rate you or slate you. set your own standards much higher than anybody else would expect of you..listen to the feed back, be respectful but not fearful and react positively to the critisism..Take your own pride / ego out of the equation..it only gets in the way the outcome is to become excellent at what you do, so you can command a good standard of living, make your customers happy and build a lasting reputation...then you are a professional imho

all the best
ed

[mikethetile]

I agree with this Ed

to be the person you want be you have to start being that person in your approach to life, do your best to live it and reality catches up

it does take time but set out to be a highly skilled proffessional in everything you do and you will reach your target

between setting out on that journey and arriving there is a massive learning curve

anyone who leaves a training course and thinks they are not going to be good enough will fail

so lots of encouragement please and get new tilers into the right mind set

be the best in all you do and you will be the best

[mikebidd]

Cheers for the replys lads.

Iv been and done a toilet today and the customer is really happy i only did up about a miter and a half. And need to go back tommorow to grout. I used my own adhesive (ultra B.S) and all went really well. So i am a lot happier

I do agree with i do need expierence but i saved up and payed for my course out off my own pocket and need to re gain some off the money. I have been completly honust with all the people i have worked for and said im new to the trade. But show them the pics off work i have done so far.


I would have lprefered to go and work for some one else for the expierence and wasnt too keen on going self employed BUT i have looked many times and rung about and cant find any one taking any one on. I couldnt afford to do a apprentiship as i have a house to run and a family to support.

I have read most off the replys but a couple have some really big words in and my dyslexia etc kicks in probably cause im abit tired and i struggle abit lol.

[united]

Nice one Mike, glad to see you haven't given in

[jay]

do to others as you would expect to be done to you
(if you wouldn't do it in your house don't do it in someone else's)

[mikethetile]

the first of many happy customers

well done mate

[TF Ed]

thats ok mike, you need to make your money back thats expected mate..
do the jobs you feel confident doing...then., when a tricky one comes up get yourself on here and ask ask ask, thats what this place is for mate

read books, watch dvds, you tube, get the odd day with anybody who can help and take it from their..list you weak points and then direct your questions specifically, then you get better answers

you'll do it, dont be optomistic, or pessimistic, just realistic.....one day at a time mate

[stoner]

Hang in there mate, been on my own for nearly 2 years now and you still get trouble with other trade muppet's, problem customers, prices etc but you learn how to deal with it. I nearly lamped a platerer once who dropped plaster all over a floor and did'nt bother cleaning it up.

[mikebidd]

the main thing i struggle with is trim and mitering it and its abit expesine to keep cutting it wrong lol. Iv just cleaned off my tools properly and love my rubi nippers the rest off my stuff is budjet gear but the nippers are mint lol.

I dont think ill attack a shower cubicle for a while and just keep to walls. Ill keep looking on web sites for some one wanting to take some one on.

[mikebidd]

The shower in question

[mikebidd]

Please note i didnt do the frame