Tilers that do plumbing work

[peckers]

I find myself sat at home today because the plumber never turned upto the job to fitt the shower base and bath etc.(im not bad mouthing plumbers as this happens in all trades im sure)

Im quite lucky as i can turn my hands to most things but plumbing and electrics isnt one of them!

Now i dont mind turning off the water supply and removing sanitryware and fitting some temporary stop ends but that is about as far as my so called plumbing work goes.

I have been held up on work before due to other trades not turning up as and when agreed to carry out there part of the job, Most times you can work around it but sometimes you cant!

How many tilers are also plumbers?
Were you a plumber before you started tiling?
Or were you a tiler and then went and done a plumbing course?
If so where did you go to do your plumbing course?
Did this course make you feel confident in carrying out plumbing in bathroom installations?
And what made you decide to do a plumbing course?

Or have you done any other related courses that have helped you with your tiling work?

[b30 villain]

was a dry liner then in the jewellery trade now trainee tiler. tried some plumbing before and flooded shop under me flat so leave well alone me

[united]

I'm looking into doing the plumbing course at NETT in the next few weeks. I have no clue about plumbing so I can't even remove a sink with confidence which is why I want to do the course.

I won't be advertising myself as a plumber I just want to do it for my own personal confidence and to make my life easier when it comes to moving and refitting things.

[suave]

only done plumbing work in own house,removed and replaced sanitary ware with a few minor adjustments,plumbed in shower,even wired it upno probs whatsoever.
theres no rocket science in plumbing (basic) especially with fixtures and fittings you can buy nowadays

[brinkley]

i thought about doing the electrician course to save me a bit of money on kitchens etc but i think the cost of these courses is a lot of money started doing plumbing at college after i left school 2 weeks later i left that for glorious tiling . do i regret it ? nope love tiling

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

I'm self taught, on renovations of houses i have done!! lets face it with all the push fit-stuff,I think domestic pluming is in the reach of us all IMO mate go for it!!

[judede]

its not as hard as somoe would have you believe, especially if using push fit fittings and plastic pipe. Same rules apply as always, use good quality gear eg Speedfit fittings & tube (make sure you push them in properly) and do things in a methodical way, ie dont forget the plastic inserts. Check everything twice ie before and after you turn the water on.

[mikethetile]

Hi Peckers

Its all trades not just plumbing. you could charge the plumber for your time if you wanted to. I dont bother as it only causes bad feeling and I dont feel its worth it

I got into tiling as I couldnt find a decent reliable tiler for my kitchen installations

the ones I did find were expensive, rough, left a right mess behind them, were rude to the customer and so on

fortunatly things have moved on in the right direction and I couldnt imagine any tiler on here behaving in such a manner

I had learnt basic tiling as a decorating apprentice, the firm I worked for not the college, so I had no choice but to do the tiling myself
Not a brilliant job with poor layout, slither cuts and lippage, but passable and streets ahead of the so called proffesional tilers

I went on a free bal course and never looked back, later on I went to college

Im a master decorator, a fully qualified and experianced joiner and tiling is my third trade, not bad in one lifetime

I aspire to be a master tiler too but I feel im too old now to reach that standard so being the best I can will have to do me

so yes go for it, an intensive plumbing course will teach you enough to fit your own bathrooms and the rest you can learn from the plumbers on here

[trevortine]

I find myself sat at home today because the plumber never turned upto the job to fitt the shower base and bath etc.(im not bad mouthing plumbers as this happens in all trades im sure)

Im quite lucky as i can turn my hands to most things but plumbing and electrics isnt one of them!

Now i dont mind turning off the water supply and removing sanitryware and fitting some temporary stop ends but that is about as far as my so called plumbing work goes.
I have been held up on work before due to other trades not turning up as and when agreed to carry out there part of the job, Most times you can work around it but sometimes you cant!
How many tilers are also plumbers?
Were you a plumber before you started tiling?
Or were you a tiler and then went and done a plumbing course?
If so where did you go to do your plumbing course?
Did this course make you feel confident in carrying out plumbing in bathroom installations?
And what made you decide to do a plumbing course?

Or have you done any other related courses that have helped you with your tiling work?

Hi Peckers, this is exactly the reason why i do my own plumbing. I am a tiler to trade but have been doing my own plumbing for about 8 years now. I do everthing from removing sinks to full installs including coring walls for new drains etc. If I find a house in copper I replace in copper, and same for plastic. Once you get the hang there really isnt much too it. Like gooner I am self taught, i was a mechanic prior to this and done a lot of hydraulic work on car transporters so im pretty much hands on. Only thing I wont touch is the gas side of things, big no no unless you are up to code although I did repair my own boiler over the weekend there, faulty pressure vessel! I think once you do a few your confidence will grow rapidly!

[peckers]

Another question arises from reading your great responses!

If you are replacing like for like sanitryware in the same locations then i suppose you dont need to have a qualification in plumbing?

But what if you were fitting say a new shower valve (not electric) but one that works off the boiler would you need some sort of qualification in this area? I know if you had to fitt a pump to it you would need a qualified electrician to do the sparks side!

Do these courses offer you any sort off qualification that is recognised to allow you to do a bathromm install? Or do you not need one?

[Scott]

I tiled before i could plumb although to be fair wood was always my main background.

I started fitting the bathrooms as i wanted to do the tiling and learnt from a plumber who used to do my installations for me. He was happy to teach knowing that i would eventually stop using him and do it myself. Now and then he rings me to help him alter soil pipes and rip out the bathrooms and i have read and learned a lot of the regs and what not to do's. I do a lot of central heating alterations as well but never gas. Not interested in the gas side of things. I have never considered doing a course, if im unsure of a water or building reg ill look it up or call someone who can tell me.

I use the plastic stuff but only hepworth, dont like the speedfit but have to say its all very ugly and has no place on show. Under floors and in lofts its fine.

I guess at the end of the day its all about comfort zones. If your not happy doing something then leave it alone. Im comfortable doing all the plumbing and everyone gets leaks at some point, as long as you check you work it fine and if it isnt then thats why we have insurance!

[TheWrightTiler]

i did the nett course in plumbing last oct peckers, since then ive ripped out a fair few baths and showers etc wih no probs, i feel the course could teach you more bout showers but all in was a good 4 days, made my cash back ten fold

u get a basic certificate from nett but i wouldnt call myself a plumber or installer, i did it cos i got fed up waiting on plumbers to take sink etc out, now i do it myself and i get to keep the extra cash, take time triple check everything and ul b fine

andy

[mikethetile]

you can get compliant for a few hundred quid you need part p and part L for plumbing and electrical. if ive got my parts mixed up someone will correct me, you dont need to be qualified you just need to show you are competant, that will cover you for making the small alterations you need to installl showers etc

[Scott]

Part P for electrics, although you can just get building control in to sign it off if you know what you are doing. Its about £150 in our area.

[Scott]

As far as im aware you dont actually have to be qualified to do it. Its not as regulated as the electrical side of things but im sure thats going to change and was supposed to a few years ago.

Im not qualified in anything i do but im certainly competent. Lets face it if we all followed everything we did to the letter we would never get anything done and building control would be run off their feet!

[albyshellshear]

Another question arises from reading your great responses!

If you are replacing like for like sanitryware in the same locations then i suppose you dont need to have a qualification in plumbing?

But what if you were fitting say a new shower valve (not electric) but one that works off the boiler would you need some sort of qualification in this area? I know if you had to fitt a pump to it you would need a qualified electrician to do the sparks side!

Do these courses offer you any sort off qualification that is recognised to allow you to do a bathromm install? Or do you not need one?

I do a lot of plumbing on my own house fitted shower and pump, most pumps now are fitted with a plug so no spark needed, also fitted sinks,toilets, all my plumbing is compresion or pushfit(speedfit) I am going to do a course on plumbing for soldering,pipe bending ect.....Alby

[TF Ed]

i dont always think its good to try and juggle everything..i have a couple of great plumbers who i work in with...i can solder, and fit a bathroom suite but, i would rather they did it for insurance and professional reasons. its also one less thing to worry about while i get on with the tiling and sorting out the substrates...
that said, it wouldnt do any harm to study the basics incase you are left in the lurch like peck ...

[nuno bruno]

I find myself sat at home today because the plumber never turned upto the job to fitt the shower base and bath etc.(im not bad mouthing plumbers as this happens in all trades im sure)

Im quite lucky as i can turn my hands to most things but plumbing and electrics isnt one of them!

Now i dont mind turning off the water supply and removing sanitryware and fitting some temporary stop ends but that is about as far as my so called plumbing work goes.

I have been held up on work before due to other trades not turning up as and when agreed to carry out there part of the job, Most times you can work around it but sometimes you cant!

How many tilers are also plumbers?
Were you a plumber before you started tiling?
Or were you a tiler and then went and done a plumbing course?
If so where did you go to do your plumbing course?
Did this course make you feel confident in carrying out plumbing in bathroom installations?
And what made you decide to do a plumbing course?

Or have you done any other related courses that have helped you with your tiling work?

If you'r god with your hands you can do it

[Phil Hobson]

I think its a shame, the old ways have disappered every trade was time served. Had to be you would read job adverts, joiners wanted only time served need apply. etc. I had the luxury of starting tiling at 15yrs old, I was taught by several Master craftsmen . Plumbing was much harder in those days, I would marvel at the old plumbers wiping a lead joint with a pig skin pad.


Imo tiling has got easier over the years, as far as fixing techniques are concerned. Although the large format trend has made the job more difficult. I do a bit of plumbing and joinery work, but would, never take a job off a plumber, same for plaster work. If everyone stuck to their own trade it would be a better safer world

[Scott]

Alby,, your right most pumps do come with a plug but if you got nowhere to plug it your gonna need a sparky. I havent had one in the last ten years which I've been able to plug straight in.

[mikethetile]

well said phil

each to their own

[TF Ed]

I think its a shame, the old ways have disappered every trade was time served. Had to be you would read job adverts, joiners wanted only time served need apply. etc. I had the luxury of starting tiling at 15yrs old, I was taught by several Master craftsmen . Plumbing was much harder in those days, I would marvel at the old plumbers wiping a lead joint with a pig skin pad.


Imo tiling has got easier over the years, as far as fixing techniques are concerned. Although the large format trend has made the job more difficult. I do a bit of plumbing and joinery work, but would, never take a job off a plumber, same for plaster work. If everyone stuck to their own trade it would be a better safer world

hi phil

i honestly think in the next 5-10 yrs we'll be back to that way mate.
when you think of all the health and safety and insurance issues on site, then its only a matter of time before it creeps onto the domestic scene..
sometimes trends change and the only way forward is to observe the past.

the only way you'll give the trades in this country the respect they once deserved is to ensure our people are back to being specilaists in what they do!! multi skilling is the ruination of the building industry,,
dont get me wrong, i understand it and i can sympathise why people do it, but i dont like it ....

[nuno bruno]

hi phil

multi skilling is the ruination of the building industry,,
....

I agree

[Scott]

Just because you can do more than one job and dont have a piece of paper to say you can do it to the same standard.

I know i can plumb a bathroom, plaster it and tile it and probably better than any newbie that has just passed a college course, experience speaks volumes.

Personally I think multi skilled is the way forward as long as you can actually do it. If i got seperate trades in to do each job i took on my bathrooms would take forever and the customers would hate it.

All said i think Aston is right i think it probably will end up going backwards.That in turn will just mean that people who multi skill like me will just have to do lame courses, and i think thats what they will end up being. I know time served sparkys who are livid that anyone can go and spend £500 and do an NIC EIC competencey course.

[TF Ed]

hi scottley

iam sure your very very good at what you do mate

all the best
Ed...

[faithhealer]

If you do your own plumbing at least you can put the bath in solidly, hate tiling round some one elses wobbly bath, in fact I won't, I charge then for putting it right!

just watch your insurance though, I pay about 400 quid a year to cover me in case I flood their house!

[Scott]

Cheers aston,

That a lot faithhealer!

I have a master craftsmen insurance from MMA (i think) £126 a year. It restricts plumbing to 15% of turnover but my argument that on the average bathroom there is only 8 pipes so the actual pumbing is minimal. A plumbers insurance is considerably more especially gas safe guys!

[whitebeam]

A mate who is site safe told me his insurance is £600 a year

[Colour Republic]

Ok I know this thread isn’t really knocking multi-traders but believe it or not, it is possible to be very good at most trades even with somebody like me that (compared to some of you) only has 15 years experience. Although I’d argue that I have more experience than some people that have been working away at a trade 2 or 3 times as long as me because of the way I apply myself. Oh and the amount of stupid hours I’ve put in. (I once didn’t leave site for 3 days and ended up falling asleep on a building site in full swing)

Like some of you I’m always striving for more knowledge on a subject rather than just sitting back and getting set in my ways, that’s not to knock the guys that turn up, do a job, get paid, go home and switch off. That’s fine, hell most of the population go into the office, do the 9 to 5 and would rather spend the rest of their time doing something other than trying to gain promotion, if that’s what makes you happy, fine, who the hell am I to judge. But that’s just not me, some would say I live to work, not work to live but I get immense satisfaction out of what I do, if I didn’t then I wouldn’t do it. OK it can be a curse too, the other half will tell you what a nightmare I am leading up to a holiday, I don’t switch off until the plane starts to taxi up the runway and even then I sometimes take my work away with me if I’ve got a job running while I’m away (Portugal ’09 is better left in the past).

I started in decorating, laboured for most trades, moved on to commercial office partitions, raised access floor, came back to decorating, expanded into bathrooms, then kitchens, then full re-furbs. But all of it stems from decorating and the attention to detail you need to be the best decorator you can. If you have the design skills, a logical mind and the attention to detail you can undertake any trade to a degree and do it to a very high standard.

All the trades I’ve learnt have either been out of necessity due to timescale or just not happy with the quality of work from people that I got in. I’d argue that being a good decorator made me a better carpenter, being a good carpenter made me a better plumber and so on... you apply the skills from one trade onto another, how many of you have picked up skills from another trade and applied it to tiling?

Because of the work I undertake I have to be good at everything. I already know where most stuff is going to be before we even walk on site and in many cases I can’t leave it to another trade to come in and install something that can ruin a design because it’s 10mm to the left, I could explain and even offer drawings but by that time it could have been done!
If somebody asks me what I do I say I’m a multi-trader, some of you may think ‘Oh yeah jack of all trades, master of none’ but without fear of ridicule I would say I’m damn good at most things.

Decorator – I’m one of the best decorators in the area, no question about it, I also employ the next best decorator in the area, he’s as slow as hell and cost me a fortune in lost profit but his finish and attention to detail is also second to none.

Carpenter – I’m a very good carpenter, I fit kitchens from £1,500 up to £50,000, I fit beautiful bespoke doors but also hang £20 knotty pine jobbies and it’s a big enough part of my work to invest in thousands of pounds worth of tools. I’d say I’m better than a lot of people that class it as their only trade, Am I the best carpenter in the world or do I class myself as a cabinet maker? No, I haven’t got the tools for that, nor have the immense knowledge of the different species of wood and joints that it would require, but I’m confident enough in my abilities that if I chose to go down that path I could do it.

Plumber – Again I’d say I’m a very good plumber, I’ve fitted enough kitchens & bathrooms to make it a daily trade and because we also do full re-furbs I’ve fitted a fair few central heating systems and make alterations to them all the time, but I wouldn’t consider myself a heating engineer as I don’t fit enough boilers to keep up on it. I do on the rare occasion do gas work (if it’s holding something up) but never make it live, I have local firms that know me well enough and our work to come round, test it and sign it off.

Electrician – I would say I’m competent and have done a lot of electrical work up until Part P, but again because of what we do, we often do the work and have local firms come and sign it off. Which they are happy to do because they trust our work. It is a certificate that I need to add to the business but some of the more specialist stuff I still get other firms in as it’s often quicker and cheaper than doing it ourselves, it’s a change in law that has affected us in a big way and even though it’s a pain I’m glad they did it as there aren’t many houses that I’ve come across that hasn’t had a least some of the electrics bodged up. That said before Part P we would often put right bodge ups that we’d seen free of charge because it bothered us, not anymore, don’t touch it unless we have charged for it as it needs signing off, which is sad.

Plasterer – Done miles and miles of jointing when I fitted out offices and because of the decorating I’m fairly handy with a trowel, again I’d say I’m better than a lot of plasterers out there (but that isn’t hard due to the amount of chancers in the game). This again was done out of necessity and time scales although I can make a wall look as good as freshly plastered because of the decorating and in the same amount of time. If I’ve got a whole house to plaster then I normally get someone else in because my time is better spent elsewhere, but will take on plastering work no problem I do enough of it not think twice about spending £60 on a new trowel.

Tiling – Am a good tiler? Yeah I’d say I’m as good and as fast with most in the trade on your bread and butter tiling. Am I a master tiler? No way, although I’m confident and capable of anything thrown at me, I’m sure Timeless could lay 2 Victorian hallways in the time I’ve set out the first, I’m sure Enduro would know the best products to restore a floor within seconds of seeing it, I’m sure Dave....??? Well I’m sure Dave could tell how low the water is in a Dewalt 2400 while his son showed me the absolute ultimate consistency of ultracolour plus for best results.

The above are all trades that I do on a daily basis because such a high percentage of our work is kitchen and bathroom fitting, by its very nature you have to swap from one trade to another, sometimes 5 or 6 times a day!

There are of course many other trades that we do on a regular basis, like double glazing and other trades we do minimal amounts of like roofing.

I think the difference comes with how you market your company, I don’t actively target my advertising for any one of the trades above (with the exception of maybe decorating), I advertise as a Kitchens / Bathrooms / Refurbishment Specialists. If people ask us to take on solely one of the above trades then we are happy to do it, and have been for years, but you won’t find us in the yellow pages under ‘plasterers’, ‘plumbers’ or even ‘tilers’

With hand on heart the recession has been a good thing for me, I’ve exploited some areas of trade that would never have been open to me otherwise, mainly with suppliers but I’ve also benefited from other firms going pop, I don’t enjoy seeing people go to the wall but I’m certainly not sorry for covering all bases. On occasion I’d love to be able to just turn up and do one trade, it means I could leave loose ends for the next trade to pick up but when the end product is all down to you then you make sure it done right and first time.

I know some of the above can seem very arrogant and self promoting but I’m more than happy to offer my work up for inspection. So it is possible to be a first class multi-trader with high standards in each discipline and I don’t think I’d have trouble getting a job in any of the trades I’ve listed above, although I’m equally aware there is a long list of trades I couldn’t call myself like a roofer or bricky.

The above isn’t a rant, but it’s a bit like when plumbers get a bad name and then you get a plumber coming on saying we’re not all bad, well just for the record, neither are multi-traders

[Scott]

Well said CR, as it happens my company name is 'Scott of most trades'