Tiling on tiles / help

[keith1]

Hi all,
Need a little advice please. I'm going to be doing a kitchen floor soon laying ceramic 600 x 600 tiles on top of 450 x 450 ceramic tiles. Do i need to prime the floor once i have washed down with sugar soap. Also i was going to use a rapid set cement based adhesive, will this be ok or is there a special adhesive for tiling on tiles. Many thanks.

[jay]

hi need a bit more info are existing tiles well laid whats the substrate and why not lift existing tiles and start fresh

[Phil Hobson]

I'm with Jay on this. Why not rip up?

[tiler4u]

If you tile over existing tiles always is risk. The best solution is takin of old cover. REMEMBER this is floor. Litelby difrent is on the wall be couse nobady walking on that Anyway you have to check old covarege, if is enough solid mayby will be right. I allways use BALL primer. You can try do some selflevelin to making nice surfece. I think this NO GOOD idea doing tiling tile on tile on floor. This is only my opinion.

All best and good luck

[united]

I would also rip them up. I wouldn't want to tile on anything unless I knew what was behind.

[Stu Lilley]

def rip up old tiles if you can.....if you cant rapid set S2 flexability will make sure the new one are well stuck

[keith1]

Hi, customer is adiment that he wants old floor to stay down, it was layed 2 years ago on a new screeded floor. The tiles are sound and level. They had a new kitchen fitted at the same time it's just that his missus is bored of the tiles. Would you prime the floor first and use rapid set adhesive? cheers

[Alan.P]

If the customer is adamant then I would clean, prime or key and fix, another thing to discuss with the customer is the problem with white goods, fridge, dishwasher etc, I'm assuming that these will be tiled up to and not under, if that's the case they may have problems removing them for maintenance, and tiles may need to be lifted.

[keith1]

Yea i told them this and his says that his going to take out the white goods. Also told him about needing to remove and probably trim down the kitchen door, none of this would change his mind on rip floor up. cheers for help.

[Alan.P]

Fair enough, as long as he has space to get the white goods back in after the new tiles go down.

[timeless john]

Keith - The trend is for larger tiles and so you must consider fixing with a flexible adhesive - especially if the screed has underfloor heating!
With a tile of 600x600mm you should consider using a notch size of 20mm diameter semi circle with a 10mm notch which will provide a solid finish bed of approx 6mm. With some large tiles/or studded you will need to back butter the tile as well as spreading the adhesive on the substrate.
Remember only you can decide if the original tiles are well fixed enough to tile over, and as explained earlier make sure you have sufficient height under the worktops to remove/replace the appliances.

[ricmrc]

i've been called to look at a couple of floors that have been tiled on tiles, as problems have occurred after laying. on a floor id always, always lift whatever is already down to be on safe side.
one job i went to start and began lifting tiles to find that they'd been laid on top of vinyl tiles. the ceramic tiles came up no bother with a paint scraper, the vinyl ones were a different story lol.

[paulyoung666]

i was going to tile over wall tiles in my kitchen , i got a bit nervous about doing it , i am glad i did , as i have found that part of the tiles were put over gloss paint !! , needless to say they came away very easily with just a paint scraper

[Alan.P]

i was going to tile over wall tiles in my kitchen , i got a bit nervous about doing it , i am glad i did , as i have found that part of the tiles were put over gloss paint !! , needless to say they came away very easily with just a paint scraper

A valuable lesson learned and a lesson to others, preperation is THE key to a long lasting job, pppppp as they say

[muffinman]

You are the tiler never put your head on the line if you say they have to come up then they have to come up if customer wants them to stay down then you can not graurantee the work because you dont know the substrate its ok the customer saying they are ok but if it goes ring he will be after you , I would not take the job on if he did not listen to me dont for get you are the tiler not him sounds like he is after a cheep job Beware

[tfs]

Hi mate,

I would use Kerraquick with latex plus!

[tfs]

no need to prime fist if you use the keraquick, just make sure the existing tiles are sound and clean.

[muffinman]

subdtright is not sound

[tfs]

subdtright is not sound

Hi muffinman, how is it not sound?

[diamondtiling]

Hi muffinman, how is it not sound?

In defence of muffinman I would have to agree with him, you dont know if the tiles were laid correctly, you cannot know if the original tiler used acrylic bond or pva or any sealer. Tapping the tiles the see if they sound ok is not good enough, your customer wants a first class finish and he wants you to provide it over a surface that you have to guarantee is ok, Why put yourself in that position? If he does not want to pay you to take it up I would walk away, it could be lifted in a day and then you could inspect the floor as that may not be right also. Your the tiler providing free impartial professional advice and he is not listening to you. These jobs are just not worth the hassle.

[tfs]

his customer actualy wants him to tile over the tile.

there may be disadvantages of tiling over tile, but it isnt regarded as wrong. nothing has actualy been said to suggest the substrate isn't sound so his comment was false.

I agree that tiling over tile is not my prefference either but it is done and sometime has to be done for various reasons e.g. cost, clients request etc.

[diamondtiling]

Clients requests to cut corners in order to save money are something that I dont entertain, some customers will always try the easy option.

[merlecollins]

Only one way to do this properly and with NO come backs/hassle.......

Rip it up

[tfs]

absolutly mate!

They dont ahve a clue what they are talking about. Its a little give and take somtetimes though, if something can be done cheaper then you we can do this sometimes. Tiling over tiles for example is done on large refurbs etc, this has been given the go ahead from architects and clerks of work etc, etc so it can be done.

Like I said many of us would rather not do things but if its not wrong and not to risky then it cant always be ruled out.

An example would be splash backs etc, I always replace plasterboard around these areas if I have romeved tiles. I know some peope try to remove the old adhesive with steam etc but in my opinion this is not good practice as in my experience the plasterboard is rarely sound after the removal of existing tiles and I choose not to do this.

I dont disagree with anything that you have said mate but, I was asking muffinman why the substrate wasnt sound as nothing had been said in these threads to suggest that it wasnt.

[tfs]

appoligies to keith, this post has went of track a little. You only asked what adhesives etc would be best.

My choice would be keraquick with the latex plus.

goodluck mate

[merlecollins]

They dont ahve a clue what they are talking about

[tfs]

I was agreeing with Daimonds comments saying customer will try to get us to cut corners. Unfortunatly most customer dont have a clue.

[diamondtiling]

I was agreeing with Daimonds comments saying customer will try to get us to cut corners. Unfortunatly most customer dont have a clue.

All the more need to walk away when they want a cheap job.

[merlecollins]

I was agreeing with Daimonds comments saying customer will try to get us to cut corners. Unfortunatly most customer dont have a clue

Me thought somebody had got out the wrong side of bed

[diamondtiling]

Me thought somebody had got out the wrong side of bed

So did I..............