Help!: Tile our bathroom

[AntA]

Hi all,
I'm horribly confused by the vast range of products and conflicting advise out there, so I've landed here.

We have a 1971 house and we've removed the old bathroom and want to tile the walls, full height, for general domestic use incuding an over-bath power shower. The walls are plaster onto typical 1970s block work. No dry lining or plaster board. We've removed all the old grout, and the top skim of plaster came off too. All loose plaster has been removed and I've replastered several patches to varying depths. The walls aren't flat to a paintable standard, but they have a pretty good "rough base plaster" finish. It's all sound and firm, if a bit dusty.

I like the sound of combined adhesive / grout as keeping the adhesive our of the gaps sounds tricky. I also like the sound of cement based rather than water based adhesive and grouts. I don't mind mixing it myself, but won't unless I have to. The new tiles are 25x20cm ceramic. 2mm spacers.

We'd like to keep the cost down, but more importantly we want the tiles to still be on the walls in 20 or 30 years time.


Three questions really:
1) What prep do I need to do to the plaster?
2) What adhesive should I use?
3) What grout?

All help appreciated.

[Dave]

Hi and welcome..


If you ony have base coat left...then this is an unsuitable sustrate to tile directly to.

You will need to re-skim or patch these area's in first..

[diamondtiling]

Hi Anta, welcome to the forums,

Is taking the plaster off the walls altogether and dry lining an option, I ask because of your request that the tiles stay on for at least 20 years. This will give you flat walls and the best surface to tile on weight wise. A few days doing this will pay dividends for future tiling works.

[merlecollins]

Hi and

Where in the UK are you?

Are you not able to stretch to paying a tiler to come and sort it for you ? there are any amount of decent lads on this forum that I'm sure would do it properly for you

[mikethetile]

to the forum ant

[Richardk]

Given the info so far, you could:
Remove all loose plaster, re-plaster to a good finish and allow to dry min 2 weeks.
Prime walls and apply tanking to shower area.
Tile with Mapegrip or Whitestar ready mixed dispersion adhesive.
Grout with Mapei Ultracolor Plus powdered grout.

Most tilers, me included, would use a cement based powdered adhesive cos its easier to use and is better all round. As Diamond says, it might be better to take all the plaster off back to the blockwork and over board with plasterboard or tile backer board but that depends on how bad your plaster is.

[Phil Hobson]

As above, all good options. Good luck and

[whitebeam]

Hi and welcome

[jay]

[AntA]

Thanks for the advise so far - here's my thoughts:

- Can we afford a tiler? Yes, but that's not the point. I want to do it myself, to learn how to do it, and save some money for other jobs on the rest of the house.
- Removing all the plaster. Well I could, but it seems a waste of effort if it can stay. It held the old tiles for 30 years. I've already patched any loose parts. And removing it is a very messy job and will fill the house with dust.

So. If I go with a cement based adhesive (that's the powder stuff, right?) and likewise for the grout, and keep the joints clean when I stick them up, what prep do I need to the existing surface? PVA? Primer?

Perhaps a better question - If I got a tiler in and they did a really good job that will last for years, what would they do?

Ant

[whitebeam]

Are you sure the backing is plaster behind the finish not sand/cement

[Sir Ramic]

Thanks for the advise so far - here's my thoughts:

- Can we afford a tiler? Yes, but that's not the point. I want to do it myself, to learn how to do it, and save some money for other jobs on the rest of the house.
- Removing all the plaster. Well I could, but it seems a waste of effort if it can stay. It held the old tiles for 30 years. I've already patched any loose parts. And removing it is a very messy job and will fill the house with dust.

So. If I go with a cement based adhesive (that's the powder stuff, right?) and likewise for the grout, and keep the joints clean when I stick them up, what prep do I need to the existing surface? PVA? Primer?

Perhaps a better question - If I got a tiler in and they did a really good job that will last for years, what would they do?

Ant

My old BMW motorcycle was ultra reliable in its day (26 years ago) but it needs a lot of looking after now and i wouldnt push it as hard as i would have when new !!!!

[timeless john]

Ant - It depends who you get!

You're right to ask the questions but at the same time its worth taking in some of the answers.
Dave - Base coat plaster is unsuitable to tile on.
Diamond - Take off the plaster and dry line the walls. + weight issues.
Richardk - Tank the shower area (power shower)/backer boards/cement based adhesives.
All good replies.

[AntA]

Oh, forgot to say, half way up there's a mosiac strip, and I think some of the mosaic pieces are glass, so not ceramic.

What would a pro do?

[diamondtiling]

Thanks for the advise so far - here's my thoughts:

- Can we afford a tiler? Yes, but that's not the point. I want to do it myself, to learn how to do it, and save some money for other jobs on the rest of the house.
- Removing all the plaster. Well I could, but it seems a waste of effort if it can stay. It held the old tiles for 30 years. I've already patched any loose parts. And removing it is a very messy job and will fill the house with dust.

So. If I go with a cement based adhesive (that's the powder stuff, right?) and likewise for the grout, and keep the joints clean when I stick them up, what prep do I need to the existing surface? PVA? Primer?

Perhaps a better question - If I got a tiler in and they did a really good job that will last for years, what would they do?

Ant

As already stated, you are asking for the plaster to withstand another 20 years minimum, so that would make it 50 years old, In my professional opinion you are asking too much of it. Fair enough if you want to do the tiling yourself, I admire your spirit. In answer to your question as to what a tiler would do then I suspect he/she may advise you to remove it and start from scratch.
You are asking for guidance to ensure a good and long lasting installation, we will only advise you the right way.

[mikethetile]

Oh, forgot to say, half way up there's a mosiac strip, and I think some of the mosaic pieces are glass, so not ceramic.

What would a pro do?

a fantastic job that will last for 30 yrs and you will be proud to have as part of your home

[AntA]

Ant - It depends who you get!

Agreed.

You're right to ask the questions but at the same time its worth taking in some of the answers.

Agreed. I'm liking it so far!

Dave - Base coat plaster is unsuitable to tile on.
Diamond - Take off the plaster and dry line the walls. + weight issues.

OK - I'd rather not strip off all the existing plaster. If I leave it on and put a finishing layer on, then what? It will be as per the original tiling base.

Richardk - Tank the shower area (power shower)/backer boards/cement based adhesives.

What's tanking? Is it the same as priming? Is it necessary in my situation?

Nobody has mentioned priming yet? I fould a tub of unibond readymix in B&Q today and it said Gypsom plaster needs priming with 1:5 PVA:water first. It also said 5 star protection for domestic power shower use, but then said not suitable for constantly submerged areas. OK so it's a shower not a swimming pool, but if it was suitable for submerged areas then surely that's better?

[GirlRacerRed]

say NO to tubbed anything. tubbed adhesives from DIY stores are rubbish and should be given a very wide berth.

tanking is a form of waterproofing in wet areas such as shower cubicles and shower areas over baths. tanking can either be a membrane that is attached to the wall, or a paint on paste that needs time to dry.

you will need powdered adhesives to tile on tanking

[diamondtiling]

Putting a finishing coat over existing walls does not give you a perfect tiling substrate, in fact it does the opposite, more weight on an unstable surface. Its impossible to tell you if your walls are good to tile without seeing them, Forget pva full stop, the most important part of your bathroom is the wall structure and its integrity, get that right and your halfway there.
Where are you in the country? I am positive that a member would call and see you and give you some good sound advice.

[doug boardley]

a coat of skim will probably be ok in your case, as you're using 25 x 20 cm tiles and these are unlikely to exceed a safe weight ratio ( I'm guessing at that size they are ceramic and not porcelain or natural stone)Use an acylic primer and not PVA

[Richardk]

Its difficult to say without seeing the state of the walls. Perhaps you could post a couple of pics. If the walls arent particularly flat, you should use a powdered adhesive as ready-mixed aren't designed to be used to depths much greater than 3mm. The BS for flatness is +/- 3mm over 2 mtrs. Presumably, the worst areas are around the bath/shower. Have you thought of overboarding them using drywall adhesive and mechanical fixings? You will get them flat and be able to tile onto them quicker.