tile tolerances

[Dib Dave]

hi guys ,just wondered what tolerances are between joint widths 2mm,customer being ultra picky says expects every tile 100% flat to each other,i said tolerance of 1mm between tile lippage,i generally use 1pence to gauge,any opinions

[Dave]

What type of tile is it...are the edges rectified..?

[Dib Dave]

ceramic wall and floor tile 10mm unglazed,edges are not rectified

[garythetiler]

lippage cant exceed 1mm on joint widthth less than 5mm

[david campbell]

i would expect them to be perfectly flat,you should be able to put a spirit level across your work and be no more than 2mm in about a 1200mm level

[Dave]

I use the flat of my hand and eysight to feel and sight any lippage and if any lippage is there i alter to suit....Tolerances have to be strict..if it can be seen by eyesight then it is too much..

[Dib Dave]

so within standard as customer,is getting a second opinion,i think ,customer is going over tiles with magnifying glass,not got paid yet either,say they are waiting for second opinion/report,

[Dave]

mmmm. have you taken any pics yourself..?

[Ajax123]

BS5385 part 1 section 4.1.8.2

There should be no appreciable differential in level across joints and the maximum deviation between surfaces across joints, including movement joints, should be as follows

1. Joints less than 6mm wide - 1mm deviation
2. Joints 6mm and over - 2mm deviation

This is mirrored in Part 3 of the standard - section 7.1.4

Not sure a 1pence peice is 1mm or not though......

[BTB]

1 penny is 1.65mm thick.

[garythetiler]

also depends alot on the tile ,some tiles have slight bows or dishes in them and perfection cant be achieved with these types of tiles, if your customer is being picky its better not to get into a dispute with them, if the work may be easly altered i would do it as a little extra work now will be alot less headaches in the long run

[Dib Dave]

have took pictures i think customer just wanted to get out of paying the bill,they insisted on getting their brother in law to board the walls to save money,he only used 9mm board said should of used 12mm,they said just tile straight on to it,would it be fair to say it is his resposibilty to ensure the wall is plumb and flat for tiling

[Ajax123]

Sounds to me like you might have a "Cowboy customer" on your hands ....

[garythetiler]

no its not fair to say that ,you should check the walls prior to tiling, at that point if the walls were not to your liking you had the chance to walk away by starting tiling you have accepted the responsibility for the finished look of your work and therefore accepted the walls were fit for tiling

[Dib Dave]

yeh been shafted big time, done the whole bathroom refit,last day she said there is orange mark on tile,turned light off,it was the shadow off the copper pipe,wanted waste pipe under floor,and couldnt undertand water doesnt run uphill or why i laughed when she wanted meto notch out 80mm plus out of each 4 joists

[garythetiler]

yeh been shafted big time, done the whole bathroom refit,last day she said there is orange mark on tile,turned light off,it was the shadow off the copper pipe,wanted waste pipe under floor,and couldnt undertand water doesnt run uphill or why i laughed when she wanted meto notch out 80mm plus out of each 4 joists

sorry to hear that Dave you do get customers like this from time to time want a rolls royce job but are only willing to pay skoda money try offering her a small discount as a good will gesture it might help to get you your money good luck with whatever happens gary

[Dib Dave]

she waited till i had totally finished job,then refused to pay any money,kicked me out of the house,had to ring police and wait 2 hours,so i could go back in to get my tools

[david campbell]

have took pictures i think customer just wanted to get out of paying the bill,they insisted on getting their brother in law to board the walls to save money,he only used 9mm board said should of used 12mm,they said just tile straight on to it,would it be fair to say it is his resposibilty to ensure the wall is plumb and flat for tiling

in a word "NO" you are responsible for ensuring the substrate you are tiling onto is in a condition that will not be detrimental to your work,you are also responsible if you knowingly put tiles onto a substrate that is not adequate

[Dave]

Doesn't sound promising then.......i would get a solicitors letter on it's way..

[david campbell]

she waited till i had totally finished job,then refused to pay any money,kicked me out of the house,had to ring police and wait 2 hours,so i could go back in to get my tools

scum!

these people seem to always think they are right and have no consideration that us guys have mortgages,families and a liveliehood to make!

[Dib Dave]

first time in 14years ive never been paid,just unlucky it happened to me ,could of been one of the other 2 guys she got to quote

[garythetiler]

scum!

these people seem to always think they are right and have no consideration that us guys have mortgages,families and a liveliehood to make!

hear hear !

[Ajax123]

no its not fair to say that ,you should check the walls prior to tiling, at that point if the walls were not to your liking you had the chance to walk away by starting tiling you have accepted the responsibility for the finished look of your work and therefore accepted the walls were fit for tiling

It is harsh but very true unfortunately. Was your work subject to a written contract or quote. What were the requirements of the contract.

If the walls were unsuitable you should not have tiled so unless you have already used that as an argument I would avoid doing so. The question seems to be is the tile face flat or not. In that respect the BS codes of practice outline what is to be reasonably expected by BOTH parties. If you have mainatined compliance with the standards then you have little to worry about unless the written contract assumed an overider to the standards. I see these over riders a lot in floor screed specs where the spec says that the screed should be laid to receive a finished floor covering but unfortunately the BS and the practical constraints of screeding often mean that it is impossible to acheive the spec. The smart screeders opt out of the unreasonableness of the spec by writing a suitable contract clause into quotes and acceptances etc. Unfortunately based on your 1pence peice test you may not have acheived the minimum reasonable standard as it is 1.65mm and you are allowed 1mm deviation in level with a 2mm joint pattern. You need to be sure of your ground if you are going to argue because BS codes of practice can protect you or they can pull the rug out from under you. If the customer is unhappy enough to have comissioned a second opinion and a report I would be talking sweetly and trying to settle it before it gets beyond the point where it cannot be resolved amicably.

[Dib Dave]

she is disputing a couple tiles not all the work,didnt get chance to get an exact gauge on tiles in question,should of used credit card as gauge instead,hardly grounds for witholding the full payment for all the work,many thanks for all your input guys

[Fekin]

Sounds like it could be messy.

Good luck with it mate and keeps us informed as to what happens

[Sean fsy]

its worse when you dont get paid and your work is mint!!! unfortunately this happened to me (£1200) the joiners £11k!!! he simply ran out of money on new build and lost his job, took him to court and got judment in my favour. cost me about £300 in letters and court charges. didnt get a penny in the end. 5 years ago now. recently found out his house is up for sale 300k. not sure if there is anything i can do.

[whitebeam]

You can put the dept onto his house, he can't sell until it's paid.

Can't remember what it's called though, a plumber I know done it

[Sean fsy]

You can put the dept onto his house, he can't sell until it's paid.

Can't remember what it's called though, a plumber I know done it

cant understand how he can put house up for sale he is totally blacklisted etc now. i put it down as a bad job and left it. thought i would be way down the pecking order if money was handed out.

[whitebeam]

Makes think more to get a contract sorted, in some ways to cover your a***

98% of customers have been sound, just seems to be tarring the good ones as the bad ones