Garage floor

[mutley]

Been a long time since I posted, so many questions with this one so apologies

Got an internal / basement, domestic garage floor and utility room to do for a friend.

60m2 in total, B & Q(yes i know) porcelain 600x 600x 10, floor is concrete / screed and has been down for a couple of years now. Unsure whether or not there's a dpm in place. Dont think frost will be an issue as really the area is integral to the house itself.

Floor will definately need levelled and am thinking Ditra as well, however floor height is an issue with the slope leading into the garage and the spoiler on the car.

My thoughts on the Ditra are simply because of the different expansion rates between the concrete and the adhesive etc.

Am i completely wide of the mark here ? Would I get away with SLC and a decent flexi with a solid bed ?

The garage measures 10.5 metres long with the utility room leading off this,to me this would require a movement joint, your thoughts

Many thanks in advance for any replies.

Mutley

[tkm18]

Dunno if i'd lay with flexi, BAL do a specific addy for heavy traffic.

Motobond i think it is.

Might be worth having a look at.

[mutley]

Tkm

thanks for the reply.

Not sure of the price or availability of motobond but thought, rightly or wrongly it would only be required for commercial. Seem to remember a post from either Dave or Grumpy dismissing its use in a domestic garage purely on price. Maybe that's all in my head though

Mutley.

[tkm18]

Dunno how much it is, never used it, but is there not a CTD out Edinburgh way? Shouldnt be too hard to get a hold of i'd imagine


Not 100% sure i'd be comfy drivng a car on tiles laid with flexi, but i havent ever looked into it that much.

Ive never had the situation arise, someone who has will no doubt have a better idea. But i'd deffo make sure youve got all the info before firing in.

[jimbob]

That must be one hell of a spoiler! What kind of car is it?

[mutley]

If I had all the answers I wouldn't have to ask

Not really sure to be honest but as you said better to have all the info first.

You're right about the CTD, 2 that I know of, once I got a better idea of what i'm dealing with i'll give them a call.

The job is on a scale and nature of something I've never done before, if i dont do it though i'll never learn...

Thanks, Mutley

[mutley]

Jimbob

Porsche carrera 4 thingy..

If you like that sort of thing

Mutley

[jimbob]

Jimbob
Porsche carrera 4 thingy..
If you like that sort of thing
Mutley

I DO like that sort of thing. Lucky git!

[Dave]

Just wack the spoiler off..hey presto no height issues......

You don't need motobond.....is the floor painted..?

[mutley]

Dave

trust me removing the spoiler was considered, by him, not me !!

No the floor is painted and never has been.

your thoughts or advice

Mutley

[Dave]

Personally i would use the un-coupling membrane if no DPM is present, this will stablise the tiled installation and is only 3mm thick...

The tiles need to be at least a vitrified tile and solid bed fix...

10.5 mtrs is pushing it on not using a movement joint and Dural do some good joints..

Keraquick would ieal for this job and Ultra colour plus would resist stains pretty good with its water drop effect..

[tkm18]

Dave

trust me removing the spoiler was considered, by him, not me !!

No the floor is painted and never has been.

your thoughts or advice

Mutley

I take it you mean 'isnt'

And dave , will a manufacturer give a guarentee on this kind of job with SPF?

[Dave]

will a manufacturer give a guarentee on this kind of job with SPF?

why not.?.......

As always if unsure ring the tech support line and put your worries at ease... Mapei Technical Helpline: 0121 508 6970

[tkm18]

why not.?.......

As always if unsure ring the tech support line and put your worries at ease... Mapei Technical Helpline: 0121 508 6970

If i was doing this kind of thing i'd make sure i had clarification from the addy manufacturer to cover my own backside.

Probably wouldnt be mapie either....

[mutley]

TKM

10 out of 10, schoolboy error on my part.. Thanks

Floor IS NOT PAINTED.


Having never used ditra before could the adhesive that its laid on be used to "take up" imperfections in the concrete base without the SLC ??

If I wasn't considering ditra then there's no way I would lay anything without self levelling the floor, maybe this answers my own question.

Any particular addy for the ditra to be laid on and is it easy to do ? Dont want to self level the floor only to make an ar.e of it with the ditra

Mutley

[Sean fsy]

are they the polished ones from b&q 4 in a box, if they are they are not to bad when put down. i put these down and looked spot on.

[mutley]

Dave,

if there was a DPM was in place what would you do differently ?

Sorry if this is stupid question.

Mutley

[Dave]

Ditra is good but so is Dural Ci as well and cheaper than Ditra..

As for installtion, use a 4mm trowel ( mosaic one is good) and work in rows...keep the adhesive wet'ish so to get a good bond and not skin to fast.

Using a flat float to press the membrane into the adhesive bed , you don't want to use to deep a trowel as ther adhesive will seep into the matt cavities and reduce it's function.

Here's a vid on the ditra one but same process for dural...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6FyWs2WZ1k]YouTube - Ceramic Tile Installation with Schluter Ditra[/ame]

[mutley]

Sean,

yet to see them but have been told creme / biege and polished so you may be right.

Just can't see them looking like that on his garage floor for long. Looks good though

Mutley

[Sean fsy]

TKM

10 out of 10, schoolboy error on my part.. Thanks

Floor IS NOT PAINTED.


Having never used ditra before could the adhesive that its laid on be used to "take up" imperfections in the concrete base without the SLC ??

If I wasn't considering ditra then there's no way I would lay anything without self levelling the floor, maybe this answers my own question.

Any particular addy for the ditra to be laid on and is it easy to do ? Dont want to self level the floor only to make an ar.e of it with the ditra



Mutley

the ditra is easily fitted heres a video on how to lay ditra:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6FyWs2WZ1k"]YouTube - Ceramic Tile Installation with Schluter Ditra[/ame]

[Dave]

Dave,

if there was a DPM was in place what would you do differently ?

Sorry if this is stupid question.

Mutley

Just level the low spots and tile as normal.....no different to any other floor and you solid fix anyway...You just needs tiles that will wear well and not stain from garage usage.

But i would probably still use the un-coupling membrane for extra security...might be seen as overkill by some fixers but i like installations to last when heavy use is required. and larger area's are more prone to delamination that smaller area's.

[Sean fsy]

bit late on that post lol, make sure you have plenty of adhesive as you have to fill all the holes up in the ditra mat with it.

[mutley]

Guys,

many thanks for the speedy replies.

Does anyone have any preference for what addy its laid on ?

I'll PM wetdecs for a price Dave, without speaking with any suppliers up here the best I've seen on-line for Ditra is approx £8 per m for 60 + metres delivered. Is this about right ??

Once again thank you.

Mutley

[tkm18]

I know Daves already said SPF will work,if I was doing it, I would double check that with the manufacturer to be safe.

As for brand, I would go with BAL.

[Dave]

I know Daves already said SPF will work,if I was doing it, I would double check that with the manufacturer to be safe.

As for brand, I would go with BAL.

If he is going to be using a porcelain tile and you recommend BAL...then motobond and BAL rapidset are both a modifed adhesive( porcel bond)...that means it has polymers in it..So could be classed as an SPF..maybe not upto S1 classification but still modified..

I think nearly all makes of cementious adhesives are modified in some way to make then suitable for bonding to vitrified tiles.


What i am interested in is why you think an SPF would have compression issues please..?.

[Stan001]

Don’t know if this helps but Pilkington do a nice range for garage floors and hard wearing under their Dorset Woolliscroft label in a range of colours. They have them with different patterns on each side. Highly vitrified ceramics with a matt finish, wet cut only jobs. I bought mine from CTD. I think they are on an 8 week waiting time if you want them. I bought the smooth ones not the pattern, you can order them with different specs of grippiness (if that makes sense). They even have one that has what feels like iron filings embedded in the surface. More info here …

Pilkington’s Tiles and Dorset Woolliscroft Porcelain and Vitrified Tiles and Quarry Tile

[Ajax123]

Alternative to de coupling mat if no DPM under the floor would be to install an epoxy DPM over the concrete. These are paint on and need to be 600 micron (much less than 3mm). They work on concrete up to 99% RH so even if no DPM will work ok on concrete.

Tremco Universal One Coat. Laybond One Coat DPM and Ardex DPM are 3 to be going on with. There are loads of these available. You can then tile on top using standard flexi adhesive.

I would not worry too much about the differential expansion and contraction profiles of the adhesive compared to the concrete because both being cement based they are likely to be very similar.

I beleive you are right i terms of joints - you should put a joint in the tile face at half way across the 10.5m length. The concrete should actually be jointed at this point as well but I bet it is not. It may be worth saw cutting a joint in the concrete to minimise the effects of the expansion and contraction if it worries you.



I suppose it depends if 3mm makes a difference or not. I won't ask my mrs that question of course.....lol

[Ajax123]

Correction - Sorry in y post I said DPM is paint on - it is not - it should be trowelled with a 5mm notched trowell and then rollered to flatten and smooth

Sorry - the wine has kicked in

[tkm18]

If he is going to be using a porcelain tile and you recommend BAL...then motobond and BAL rapidset are both a modifed adhesive( porcel bond)...that means it has polymers in it..So could be classed as an SPF..maybe not upto S1 classification but still modified..

I think nearly all makes of cementious adhesives are modified in some way to make then suitable for bonding to vitrified tiles.


What i am interested in is why you think an SPF would have compression issues please..?.

Im aware that both are modified, wouldnt have mentioned motobond if i didnt.

And i havent said there were definetly issues with compression either, im mearly saying check that SPF is suitable for this kind of job.

Im assuming youve done this kind of job before and have been told that SPF is suitable for the job? Because fairly obviously neither me nor mutly have. Would be crazy, in my opinion, for mutly to dive in without cosultaion with a manufacturer.

Going on the specs for both BAL products, i'd be inclined to go with MotoBond for this kind of thing, unless told otherwise by a BAL tech.

Like i say, ive had the need to yet, i'll worry about that should the situation arise.

As for other addys, i wouldnt know.