1st Job: Pre-laying help needed

[SaracenGB]

After posting in the intro thread I was advised to post a specific thread about my job.

I'm in the planning stages of a largish (well it is for me anyway) project of tiling the floor of my hall, w/c, kitchen/dining area and utility room. I've bought the tiles and plan to use a 3 hour quick set cement.

Substrate is concrete in a new build house. I've a couple of questions that I'm sure people on this forum have answered before and apologies if you have seen this problem before.

1. How uneven can the concrete floor be before I need to undertake remedial work? We've been in the house over a year now and having laid eng wood in the living/dining room area I've found the floor to be very poor in terms of levelness. Builders are Barratts - need I say more?
How much of unevenness (is that a word?) will the quick set cement take up? Can I "adjust" the amount of cement as go to keep the tiles level? Also it says in the bag of cement that it sets in 3 hours - does that mean I can walk on it after 3 hours?

2. In my hall scenario I'm struggling to decide where to lay the first tile. The hall is 5700 x 1100 mm but there are two spots wider than 1100 - one in front of the stair case and one under the stairs. I could supply a drawing if that would help answer the question. I'm not sure where to call the centre of the long and short wall? Any tips on how to start laying the tiles would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Phil

[david campbell]

After posting in the intro thread I was advised to post a specific thread about my job.

I'm in the planning stages of a largish (well it is for me anyway) project of tiling the floor of my hall, w/c, kitchen/dining area and utility room. I've bought the tiles and plan to use a 3 hour quick set cement.

Substrate is concrete in a new build house. I've a couple of questions that I'm sure people on this forum have answered before and apologies if you have seen this problem before.

1. How uneven can the concrete floor be before I need to undertake remedial work? We've been in the house over a year now and having laid eng wood in the living/dining room area I've found the floor to be very poor in terms of levelness. Builders are Barratts - need I say more?
How much of unevenness (is that a word?) will the quick set cement take up? Can I "adjust" the amount of cement as go to keep the tiles level? Also it says in the bag of cement that it sets in 3 hours - does that mean I can walk on it after 3 hours?

2. In my hall scenario I'm struggling to decide where to lay the first tile. The hall is 5700 x 1100 mm but there are two spots wider than 1100 - one in front of the stair case and one under the stairs. I could supply a drawing if that would help answer the question. I'm not sure where to call the centre of the long and short wall? Any tips on how to start laying the tiles would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Phil

if there is a bit of a difference in height would it be beneficial to use a self levelling compound first before tiling? if the difference is maybe only up to 4/5mm then this could be sorted using a larger notched trowel,yes you can walk on it after 3 hours but if it is going to be a thicker bed then it sometimes can take slightly longer to dry,when starting to set out i would centre the tile in fromt of the stairs as you walk in the front door

[timeless john]

Phil - How many tiles have you bought and what size are they?
What adhesive have you bought?
Do you plan to bond all the rooms together (ie line up all the tile joints)
Just for starters!

[doug boardley]

can you post some pics Phil to help us visualize your layout

[SaracenGB]

Phil - How many tiles have you bought and what size are they?
What adhesive have you bought?
Do you plan to bond all the rooms together (ie line up all the tile joints)
Just for starters!

I've got 15 boxes with 11 each per box - tiles are 43cmx43cm. I've got several bags of Excel Bond rapid set cement (says 3hrs on the bag).

I'm going to treat the rooms as separate sections - so I'll do the hall then the w/c as they are next to each other. Then the dining/kitchen as one room as they are open plan. Then finally the utility room as a fourth section.
I'll take some pictures asap and post them up for the hall so everyone can see the layout.

Thanks for the info so far guys

Phil

[SaracenGB]

IMG_1967.JPG
View from Kitchen door toward front door. Moving from Kitchen to front door you come to........

IMG_1968.JPG
View showing under stairs area - opposite this is a pair of double doors to the living room

IMG_1969.JPG
Bottom of stairs area.

IMG_1970.JPG
Area just before front door. Door on left here is to W/C. Plan is to put some coir matting in a mat well from front door threshold to left hand side of W/C door frame, so I intend to treat the W/C as a separate job.

Hope this helps people see the layout. The tiles in the picture are dry laid by the way - just me trying to work out where to start

[dagger]

it looks like it can be ironed out in the adhesive,
that said try putting the tile along the hallway centre of centre line,
as in have the middle of the tile on the line you have drawn, it might lead to better cuts!

[timeless john]

I'd agree with Dagger - put 1 tile through the middle with a big cut either side to skirting.
This way you will not be looking straight down a joint through the middle of the hallway and you will not end up with a 100mm cut to the walls.
Again these are opinions!
Check the lines that flow into other rooms which lead off the hallway and are going to be tiled.
With your 15 boxes of tiles check the shade numbers on the boxes and open a few. The tiles have a distinct marking on them so see if they need to be shuffled or laid in 'random' style. Take tiles out of 5/6 boxes to mix.

[Tilestiles]

Dry lay it all first and make sure you are happy with layout prior to fixing. Try and avoid any thin cuts and adjust tiles acccordingly so that you get bigger cuts if possible. Centralise tiles down hallway and into each room entrance if possible. Its a lot easier to adjust the layout if you havent stuck them!!

[Dave]

After posting in the intro thread I was advised to post a specific thread about my job.

I'm in the planning stages of a largish (well it is for me anyway) project of tiling the floor of my hall, w/c, kitchen/dining area and utility room. I've bought the tiles and plan to use a 3 hour quick set cement.

Substrate is concrete in a new build house. I've a couple of questions that I'm sure people on this forum have answered before and apologies if you have seen this problem before.

1. How uneven can the concrete floor be before I need to undertake remedial work? We've been in the house over a year now and having laid eng wood in the living/dining room area I've found the floor to be very poor in terms of levelness. Builders are Barratts - need I say more?
How much of unevenness (is that a word?) will the quick set cement take up? Can I "adjust" the amount of cement as go to keep the tiles level? Also it says in the bag of cement that it sets in 3 hours - does that mean I can walk on it after 3 hours?

2. In my hall scenario I'm struggling to decide where to lay the first tile. The hall is 5700 x 1100 mm but there are two spots wider than 1100 - one in front of the stair case and one under the stairs. I could supply a drawing if that would help answer the question. I'm not sure where to call the centre of the long and short wall? Any tips on how to start laying the tiles would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Phil

How uneven can the concrete floor be before I need to undertake remedial work?

Normally anything greater than +3mm requires prep...

How much of unevenness (is that a word?) will the quick set cement take up?

Most adhesives will cope with around a 6mm bed and if deeper is required then a thick bed adhesive needs to be used...

Also it says in the bag of cement that it sets in 3 hours - does that mean I can walk on it after 3 hours?

That will be based upon a constant temp of aorund 20dgsC, so if you can give longer ,then thats the safest option..never rush.

In my hall scenario I'm struggling to decide where to lay the first tile. The hall is 5700 x 1100 mm but there are two spots wider than 1100 - one in front of the stair case and one under the stairs. I could supply a drawing if that would help answer the question. I'm not sure where to call the centre of the long and short wall? Any tips on how to start laying the tiles would be much appreciated.

Follow the asvice from the members above and you will be fine..

And thanks for sharing the pics with us, maybe some more of the finished job would be great...

[Prem Tiler]

Without being on site it is very difficult for any of us to advise how to set out. what may look great from one angle in a photo could end you with shoddy cuts round a corner we cant see. but there are a few rules/guide lines to adhere to.

one being never finish on a full tile. this means dont set out so you get a full tile up against a wall. because ass the wall continues if it's at all out you have no room to maneuver. this is why dagger and TJ suggested centering a tile on your center line.

another being avoid cuts smaller than a 3rd of tile size. diffrent fixers have diffrent standards to this but a 3rd is mine. If I was setting it out and I found there was a cut less than a 3rd of the tile size I would reassess the options.

If it takes you as a DIY tiler a day to get It just right then so be it. I promise a day of setting out to get it right will save time in the long run when your have avoided nasty cuts.

[dagger]

Without being on site it is very difficult for any of us to advise how to set out. what may look great from one angle in a photo could end you with shoddy cuts round a corner we cant see. but there are a few rules/guide lines to adhere to.

one being never finish on a full tile. this means dont set out so you get a full tile up against a wall. because ass the wall continues if it's at all out you have no room t1o maneuver. this is why dagger and TJ suggested centering a tile on your center line.

another being avoid cuts smaller than a 3rd of tile size. diffrent fixers have diffrent standards to this but a 3rd is mine. If I was setting it out and I found there was a cut less than a 3rd of the tile size I would reassess the options.

If it takes you as a DIY tiler a day to get It just right then so be it. I promise a day of setting out to get it right will save time in the long run when your have avoided nasty cuts.

good advice mucca