Advice on expansion joint?

[Bartlett]

Hi, I'm a fairly new tiler, trained at STC Harlow, and have been steadily building up my business over the past few months but mainly on small jobs. Done a few bathrooms, kitchens, small floors. Went to look at a job this evening, tiling almost the whole downstairs of a house, kitchen, L-shape hallway, small shower-room and cloakroom.
Still putting the estimate (or is it guesstimate? ha ha) together but would like advice on whether I might need to allow for an expansion joint or joints. Front door to back door is 10.3 metres and width of hallway at widest point is 6.2 metres. Customer is 'excitedly looking forward to seeing straight lines from front of house to back' and was a little disappointed when I mentioned about the possibility of joints at the doorways.
I'm sure we dealt with this at STC and I could look it up in my books but wondered if anyone has any advice for me?

[whitebeam]

You could do cold joints at the doorway if a tile joint falls there, mapei do silicone the same colour as their grouts

[Bartlett]

You could do cold joints at the doorway if a tile joint falls there, mapei do silicone the same colour as their grouts

That was a quick response, thanks. A cold joint being a gap in the tiling? The same size as the grout line?

[whitebeam]

Thats right and silicone which allows movement, a cold joint

[Bartlett]

This forum is the nuts! So speedy and so so useful!

So onto the next question....customer would like to keep existing skirting in the hallway and for me to tile up to it. How is this best dealt with? Big area and again I would like to leave room for expansion, but how big? And do I just silicone it? I'm thinking it will look pretty ugly and I would prefer to remove skirting. Any advice?

[timeless john]

Just tile up to the skirting and grout in. You'll probably find there will be movement from the edge of the tile to the skirting in time and this will be covered by the painters chaulk when he fills the gap and paints. (you can't paint silicone).

Timeless John.

[whitebeam]

Oil based under coats can be used, not acrylics though. As oil based paints are due for banning soon

[heavytrevy]

I dont grout up to skirting esp if its wood , there is a good chance of it swelling and crumbling the grout.
I get my cuts close and the fill with acrylic

As for you expansion joints the doorways are good ,but if the room is big ,where im from we have them every 5m2 or where the substrate changes.

Hope this helps

Trev

This forum is the nuts! So speedy and so so useful!

So onto the next question....customer would like to keep existing skirting in the hallway and for me to tile up to it. How is this best dealt with? Big area and again I would like to leave room for expansion, but how big? And do I just silicone it? I'm thinking it will look pretty ugly and I would prefer to remove skirting. Any advice?

[Bartlett]

Just tile up to the skirting and grout in. You'll probably find there will be movement from the edge of the tile to the skirting in time and this will be covered by the painters chaulk when he fills the gap and paints. (you can't paint silicone).

Timeless John.

Thanks Timeless John, good advice.
If I can convince the customer to go down the 'remove the skirting route' (it's pretty small and flimsy skirting anyway and IMO would be improved by replacing) do you reckon this would preferable? I'm thinking (a) it would look neater and (b) it would allow me to leave a 10mm gap at edges of hallway/kitchen, which would then be hidden by new skirting.

[doug boardley]

Thanks Timeless John, good advice.
If I can convince the customer to go down the 'remove the skirting route' (it's pretty small and flimsy skirting anyway and IMO would be improved by replacing) do you reckon this would preferable? I'm thinking (a) it would look neater and (b) it would allow me to leave a 10mm gap at edges of hallway/kitchen, which would then be hidden by new skirting.

I'd get skirting removed if possible, perimeter expansion joint can they be hidden underneath

[Bartlett]

Thanks Doug, you've helped me previously too. So a 10mm gap all round the edge of tiled area if poss, which will be siliconed to seal and covered with new skirting, plus a cold joint in the doorway from hallway to kitchen. Does this sound okay?

[timeless john]

Bartlett - Why are you so keen to remove the skirting?
Expansion in the substrate will occur under the skirting anyway and you wont have to seal it.
The customer doesn't want to have the extra expense of new skirting/painting etc. ( who is going to pay for the joiner and decorator)
And if you look at some of the threads previously posted by 'disgrunted form Mars' they post pictures of 1mm gaps under the skirting and complain its a bad job!

Timeless John.

[Bartlett]

Bartlett - Why are you so keen to remove the skirting?
Expansion in the substrate will occur under the skirting anyway and you wont have to seal it.
The customer doesn't want to have the extra expense of new skirting/painting etc. ( who is going to pay for the joiner and decorator)
And if you look at some of the threads previously posted by 'disgrunted form Mars' they post pictures of 1mm gaps under the skirting and complain its a bad job!

Timeless John.

I don't want to create extra and unnecessary expense but hallway is to be completely re-decorated anyway and the kitchen has only one wall of skirting at present. I just want to do a good and long-lasting job and it sounds as though the extra expansion all round the perimeter would be beneficial. Also, IMO it would look so much better; the current skirting is small and narrow and cheap.
I haven't looked at the post you mention but I'll take a look. If necessary I can cope with doing the skirting myself; have done plenty before.