DIY Related: Spacer size and pattern

[mercedism]

I am going to be laying some 333x333x8mm porcies. I haven't worked out a pattern yet as i am still strengthening the plywood floor.

Room is 8 - 8.5ft wide and 24ft long.

What size spacers would you recommend. and any specific pattern that you think would look good. I have extra tiles, so might as well use them if it looks good.

[Dave]

Is the room gong to be left open plan or shall you be installing units or summit..

A half tile border/frame looks good with a diamond 45dg field tiles set within this.

[mercedism]

Foooooooooool........

My mistake, its a kitchen. Units will mostly be down one side as its quite narrow, probably a table at the end.

Room has been completely gutted, plumber is just moving all pipes above floor level. Plan is to go wall to wall, then skirting will sit on top.

[Dave]

You could still set a pattern to suit within the units...

This could be diamond set or brickbond set or even staggered set or just straight forward in line set...

Brickbond or straight set would be the easiest to do with no units in..

[mercedism]

Thats the only worry, if for any reason i change the kitchen or add extra units it may look odd. When plumber has finished as hes got tools on the floor, i think i will crack some open and play around, as i know where the kitchen will sit out too.

What size spacers??? as i can start trying to get the bits i am going to need.

I will be using a flexible adhesive and a flexible grout, so would a wider gap be more suited or smaller for floors that may flex.

[Dave]

There should be minimal flexi in the floor and the min joint is 2mm upto what ever width the grout can cope with...

Is the floor onto joists..?

[mercedism]

Just checked, its 400 centres along joists but will also be spanning across concrete too.

[Dave]

Mixed substrates??... this is different prep...

Have you got a pic of the floor please..?

[timeless john]

A lot depends on how important you require the floor to look.
If the room is only 8/8.5 feet that means by the time you put your units in down one side you will only have about 6/6.5 feet of flooring visible - that is approx 6 tiles!
However as it is also 24 feet long - and I'am assuming this is the length that you will be looking down - You would be advised to break up this long joint line with some diagonal/broken bond design.
I would suggest a joint of 2/3mm but only if your tiles are of a uniform quality and you are confident in maintaining a straight line.
If you have extra tiles are they all the same tile/colour of would this allow you to be more dramatic in your overall approach to the floor design.
As previously asked what is/will be the contruction of your floor prior to tiling and are you aware of the adhesives and grout that will be required for a timber substrate

Timeless John.

[mercedism]

me as a guest

correct john it will only have a few showing as the longest length is down the room. I haven't opened the box yet but is it harder to keep the gap good if its smaller or larger then. I have extra tiles all the same, so no colour variation.

Construction is now going to be ply after doing some more reading on here as a member. (for the joisted side).

just taken some pictures, just reading up how to get them on here

upandrunning.

helpme

[Dave]

Ok..so you understand about the mixed substrate and prep needed etc....

It is easier now you have joined to get faster replys...as then your posts don't need to be approved all the time and it's nicer for us to see a member name ...

[mercedism]

Much better being a member. This is going to be like one of them movies where a trained pilot talks a passenger how to land the plane.

I have done some reading and going for 18mm ply now. I will be reinforcing the floor as i go along. I will be opting for half size sheets of ply. This because of the narrowness of the room it will be easier for me to manouvre them on my own and make sure they are securely down. Anything wrong so far???

[Dave]

Right for speed here is the said pics of your floor...it will make it easier for the members to see them here.

[Bolter]

Yep basically fix the floor boards so there is no movement. Fix then the 18mm ply or tile backer board and prime it well with a suitable primer. Do not use PVA please.

If the ply floor is higher than the concrete substrate you will maybe need to use Self Levelling Compound (latex powder and white liquid combo) to raise the floor to the same height, or if its that much deeper, you can tile the floor using any old tiles you may have knocking around, and then tile new floor on top. Use a powdered flexi adhesive for this.

Where the two floors join, you may need to use an expansion joint as there is likely to be movement. You may want to consider using some ditra matting on the ply. Research into this yourself though.

Best of luck! If you get stuck, ask on here!

edit: ditra matting is called a decoupling membrane I think? Someone want to back me up?

edit2: more info here http://www.tilersforums.co.uk/tilers...ing-shift.html

[mercedism]

The level the ply sits at will be the level the screed is being done too. 50mm. So hopefully it will be one continuous level. The expansion joint, will this sit between the screed and the joists or does it go between the tiles? this is where i am getting stuck.

Can't use ditra matting as i don't have the height in the room, so its got to be straight adhesive. Even went for 8mm tiles to keep it low as poss.

Should i butt the ply up as tight as i can against the walls? or leave a small gap?

[Bolter]

The level the ply sits at will be the level the screed is being done too. 50mm. So hopefully it will be one continuous level. The expansion joint, will this sit between the screed and the joists or does it go between the tiles? this is where i am getting stuck.

Can't use ditra matting as i don't have the height in the room, so its got to be straight adhesive. Even went for 8mm tiles to keep it low as poss.

Should i butt the ply up as tight as i can against the walls? or leave a small gap?

A small gap will be fine. A couple of mm or so.

Expansion will normally sit between tiles as a joint, if you like. Make sure you buy a decent, suitable flexi adhesive for the job. And also flexi grout.

5mm spacer is a fairly normal size spacer for floor tiles, but you can go down to a 2mm spacer if required.

[mercedism]

Looking at the ruler, 5mm looks good. 2mm looked too small.

Glad to see its coming along, even if its only on paper (so to say).

Plumbers working evenings, so that should be finished later this week, so hope to have the ply down towards the end of the week. Just incase he wants to check any joints. Will update pics and try and source some 5mm spacers.

What sort of size pack should i get???

[grumpygrouter]

Personally I think 2mm is too small for timber floor. You are making your flexy grout work that much harder to do it's job, but I know others here will disagree. A small joint is much easier for you to lose the line if the tiles vary even a small amount size wise. I am just laying some top quality Porcs in my hallway and I have plumped for a 4mm joint...on hardie overboarded chipboard. I think it gives a good balance to the tiles. (600 x300 btw in brickbond.).

[timeless john]

When the joint becomes part of the overall design -as in brick bond - I would agree with the wider joint.
However in that seamless polished porcelain trend that prevails at the moment the client preference is as small a joint as possible - and onto a wood substrate 2mm would be required.

Timeless John.

[mercedism]

these are not polished, they have a slight riven to them.

i know i am going to need a tile cutter. A girl at work is lending me one, i will let you know what make once i collect it, closer to the time.

What sort of size packs do the spacers come in, 100, 500 ??? Obviously i am not a pro. so won't be laying that quick. I have been looking at some of the work done by people on here and i have seen some blue ones that seem to stick up in the air!!!!

[grumpygrouter]

When the joint becomes part of the overall design -as in brick bond - I would agree with the wider joint.
However in that seamless polished porcelain trend that prevails at the moment the client preference is as small a joint as possible - and onto a wood substrate 2mm would be required.

Timeless John.

We start to get issues with BS guidlines then as well John. I know it may not be relevant to a DIY'er but for the pro, to ignore BS guidelines can have the possibility of liability issues if things go wrong, don't you agree?

[timeless john]

We start to get issues with BS guidlines then as well John. I know it may not be relevant to a DIY'er but for the pro, to ignore BS guidelines can have the possibility of liability issues if things go wrong, don't you agree?

I totally agree with the BS guidlines which is why you should take that point up with the administrator then Grumpy as I was only quoting his lead in post 6 with a 2mm joint.

John.

[Dave]

Bs5385 does state 3mm min floor joints but that is just a guide line ...

Lets say for instance you are tiling a wall and 2mm joints look best with a recitifed edge tile and matching floor tiles then 2mm is fine...imo.

[Dave]

We start to get issues with BS guidlines then as well John. I know it may not be relevant to a DIY'er but for the pro, to ignore BS guidelines can have the possibility of liability issues if things go wrong, don't you agree?

As mentioned a few times Russ...they are guide lines but experiance tells a fixer what he can do as well.......

[grumpygrouter]

LOL...I am sure he will come back and clarify John.

[grumpygrouter]

You must have posted at the same time Dave....

I knew you would have a valid reason for saying what you said, wasn't disputing it. Still don't know if I would put a 2mm joint onto timber though unless I knew the tiles were abso spot on for size and the floor was really solid. My skill levels are not at your level yet....

[timeless john]

I knew we could rely on Dave!
My 2nd post did say 2/3mm so I was hedging my bets.


John.

[Dave]

I have heard of fixers going tighter......but the least i will go is 2mm if i have to.....

And post 6 john was a typo....should have been 3mm but hit wrong key but i stand by it if we need to use a 2mm joint....as i am now on a bathroom but concrete floor..

[grumpygrouter]

I have heard of fixers going tighter......but the least i will go is 2mm if i have to.....

And post 6 john was a typo....should have been 3mm but hit wrong key but i stand by it if we need to use a 2mm joint....as i am now on a bathroom but concrete floor..

Ha! Knew that was out of character for you.........

[Bolter]

these are not polished, they have a slight riven to them.

i know i am going to need a tile cutter. A girl at work is lending me one, i will let you know what make once i collect it, closer to the time.

What sort of size packs do the spacers come in, 100, 500 ??? Obviously i am not a pro. so won't be laying that quick. I have been looking at some of the work done by people on here and i have seen some blue ones that seem to stick up in the air!!!!

You will need a dry cutter and a wet cutter. You could do it all with a wet cutter if you wanted but would take you twice as long. You would not be able to do the whole job with just a dry cutter unless you are seriously skilled with tile nippers!

Let us know what cutter it is. A pic is preferable We like pics