Help! How do I complain about my tiler?

[leevander]

A couple of months ago I had 2 en-suits fitted. The showers are cubicles with trays with tiling on the walls and floors. After 2 - 3 weeks, cracks started to appear in the grouting between the floor tiles. The tiler said it is because the floor is moving even though he layed 'hardy backer' prior to laying the tiles. To remedy the problem, he re-grouted but mixed in a wood adhesive to strengthen it. The cracks have re-appeared.

We recently found dampness in the ceiling below the en-suite and discovered that it was a problem when the shower was being used. (The electricity also shorted out as the water was touching a wall plug) I called out a plumber who could not find fault with the plumbing but he said the tiling in the cubicle was very suspect and was probably the cause of the problem. He pointed out cracks in the grouting between the wall tiles and said there was no sealant around the shower controls (which are attached directly to the tiled wall).

I don't believe the tiler sealed the plaster wall prior to fitting the tiles, which I have since been told is a must.

The tiler is an independant tradesman and I don't know if he is affiliated to any tiling bodies.

My questions are -

1. Can I claim off his professional indemnity insurance? If so, how do I go about it?

2. If I go down the small claims court route, I will need an independant tiling specialist to inspect the work. Who should I call to do this? Is there a national governing body?

I have known the tiler for years and never doubted his abilities but I now feel a real numpty for using this guy and I am now paying the price big time.

Any other advice (other than use a qualified professional next time!) would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.

[Prem Tiler]

any chance you can post some pics for us all to see?

[timeless john]

My only question at this stage is who fitted the shower dial.
In the normal course of fitting out a bathroom after the first fix plumbing the tiler would fit his tiles to the shower tray, cut around shower dial etc.
Then on completion the Plumber would return to complete his 2nd fix ie. fit the shower screen, shower head, shower dial and seal.

As for the floor - that's a different scenario and if the grout is cracking you would have cause for complaint.

Timeless John.

[Dave]

You can get an independent inspection done by The Tile Association...but it's not cheap...

The Tile Association

[wacker]

you can get the tile association to check the work for you. They are not cheap, but they are an independent body that will verify any work done. Just google them for contact details. Never heard of "wood adhesive" being mixed into grout before. As for the leaks, like timeless john says who fitted the shower dial? Was there a tanking system installed? (water proof membrane installed prior to tiling) as for the insurance, it will depend on who he is covered by and what type of policy he has. If all else fails, call the guy back and try to reason with him. I don’t know a great deal about the small claims court, but i do know it’s a time consuming process.

[mags]

Who says your walls had to be sealed ? I tiled my own bathroom and shower years ago before i was a tiler and knew what I know now. it was plasterboarded / skimmed walls which I just tiled ontop of all using b&q tiles and grout/adhesive.

I wouldnt do it this way now of course but laid correctly bedding down properly this has caused me no grief.

These tiles have been in now 8 years with no cracking of grout no leakage and I use the shower everyday.

As for hardibacker 6mm I was told by a supplier that ply 12mm upwards is more stable for moving floors but the hardibacker is more water resistant.

[Dave]

Who says your walls had to be sealed ? I tiled my own bathroom and shower years ago before i was a tiler and knew what I know now. it was plasterboarded / skimmed walls which I just tiled ontop of all using b&q tiles and grout/adhesive.

I wouldnt do it this way now of course but laid correctly bedding down properly this has caused me no grief.

These tiles have been in now 8 years with no cracking of grout no leakage and I use the shower everyday.

As for hardibacker 6mm I was told by a supplier that ply 12mm upwards is more stable for moving floors but the hardibacker is more water resistant.

Tiling with dispersion adhesive, then the walls do not require sealing if prepped right , i.e. brush any dust off. but sealing does cut down the suction rate of the substrate..or to dust proof walls etc.

Primers are normally designed for cement based adhesives onto gypsum substrates ..

Back to the job in OP , then there must be water getting in sone where and i wouldn't use the shower anymore till this is diagnosed where it is coming from.

[doit4u]

Have a word with your local trading standards in my experience they are always a good source of advice/guidance.

[timeless john]

If you do get a chance to reply - I would also like to ask - you have 'known this tiler for years and never doubted his ability but other advice other than use a qualified professional next time!'
Is he a tiler?

Timeless John.

[leevander]

My trusted tiler did the job lot. I'm not sure how he fitted the dial.

[Daveyboy]

Hi Leevander..until I can see some photos, I'm not in a position to comment on the standard of work but if you want to pursue the matter formally, speak to your local trading standards staff first...

[timeless john]

So now we know the 'trusted tiler' did the lot!
Plumbing ok.
Tiling not ok.
Then he should have sealed around the shower dial when he completed the tiling and before you used the shower.
Water will ingrees into the smallest of cracks so stop using the shower until its repaired/redone.
Get your trusted tradesman back and point out the faults for him to rectify.
Keep a record of all communication, time of calls, apointment made/not kept etc.
See what happens - as a friend he may surprise you!

Timeless John.

[brian c]

i was going to ask..have you actually confronted the tiler about your thoughts?IMO..he should be given a chance to rectify the problems before any action is taken.

[tileexperts]

i was going to ask..have you actually confronted the tiler about your thoughts?IMO..he should be given a chance to rectify the problems before any action is taken.

i agree, give him a chance to fix it, if you still not happy, take action.

[CBTC]

Plumbers and tiling: usually Im afraid.
"wood glue in the grout - to make it stronger" winging it, to put it kindly. Not a recommended practice by any grout manufacturer I know of, to put it formally.

A TTA report is not really required unless going the court route, as it is expensive. What I would do is ask if a couple of tile contractors / tilers, one at least a TTA member preferably, would inspect and report and/or quote for remedial work.
What sort of value was the job overall may we know?

[Ajax123]

As several people have already posted - why not just confront the tiler with the issues you have and ask him to put them rught. He might surprise you and that would save all the hassle of going legal with it. If he won't play ball then speak to the trading standards for advice. The TTA are independent but expensive. The BRE may also be able to help with this. They also independent. NO idea if they cheaper than the TTA or not though.

[leevander]

Hi all.
He has come round and I have pointed out the problems. He suggests that the amount of water coming through is more than what the small cracks in the grouting would allow, so we are going to test each element of the system to see where the leek is coming from.
He has agreed to seal round the shower controls and re-grout the areas that have small cracks and says that he did seal the plasterboard prior to fitting the tiles
Movement in the floor is apparently causing the cracks between the floor tiles. He will remove all of the grout and have another go at grouting it but mixing in pva or something? I have to admit that I think the floor will be the biggest bone of contention and that ultimately, the tiles will have to come up and more strengthening beneath is needed. Why wasn't this done first time round!!?

I did contact trading standards and they suggested that he should be given the opportunity to rectify the problems before I take further action.

I have taken pictures and am making notes etc. I am also going to contact the TTA and get a quote for a report....just in case.

Thank you all for your advice. I really do appreciate forums like these that can help people like me. I will keep you updated with the saga....

[GirlRacerRed]

lee

please can you tell us what the tiles are? ceramic, porcelain, stone, travertine....

your tilers says the cracks in the grout in the floor tiles is because there is movement in the floor. you say the tiler fitted hardibacker to the floor, but how was this board secured? because if it's not screwed down enough, there will still be flex in the floor.

could you also tell us what adhesives and grouts were used? and were they flexible?

thanks
GRR

[GirlRacerRed]

and adding pva to the grout? I've never heard of this before....

[timeless john]

GRR - I think you're going to have to get yor overalls on in your next picture!
Need to see some adhesive on the face and grout dust in the hair.
Good advice.

John.

[hillhead]

Maybe no flexi adhesive used on floor?maybe dusty surface with no priming??
Maybe shower valve seal leaking? the list is endless here!! Unless it's known what prep work and materials were done and used we're in the dark here! maybe only the tiler knows this all.

[Hawkofeagles]

did he lay a bed of adhesive under the HBB before screwing it down and If so how far apart were the screws??

[CBTC]

'flexible' gear isnt going to make up for lack of strength / too much deflection in the sub-floor, whatever was used. This is most likely the issue with regard to the floor.