First Job - tiling over tiles & taking up ceramic tiles of concrete floor

[daddy30]

Just got a phone call for my first job.

It involves tiling over tiles in a Kitchen, the customer has just had a brand new kitchen fitted and didnt take the existing tiles of so needs me to tile over the existing tiles. I've told him its better to take off existing tiles but he doesnt want this. Should I turn this job down or is it okay to tile over tiles?

Also he wants floor tiled and I would need to take up ceramic tiles of a concrete floor. Will this be easy enough to do? Will the adhesive come off easily?

thanks for your help

[poynton phil]

I do try to avoid tiling over tile usually, but you can. Make sure you clean them well first,and use a bagged adhesive not ready mixed, and theres no need to prime. Also make sure there is nothing in the way that will stop you,ie any pipe work or door architrave that will have tiles protruding ect. As for removig the flor tiles, i use a sds hammer drill with a cranked head chisel, makes lie a bit easier, then put a slc over it to make the floor nice and level for tling. Make sure you cover every thing with dust sheets as there will be quite a bit of dust and tille splinters flying about.

[kilty55]

hi dad you can tile over tiles although as phil says check nothing is going to have get in the way of your cuts..you will ned longer screw for the sockets you can get them from b and q.

i would also advise you to buy an sds drill if your get this job and buy a tile removing head for it ,,you will have the floor up so much easier with this if you use a bolster and hammer you will make a very hard job for yourself...good luck

[diamondtiling]

You dont need to prime???? What? Bond all surfaces all the time, You should have built the cost of hiring an SDS for the floor tiles into your estimate, Even if you own one you should be charging accordingly,

[kilty55]

i dont think hes been to see the job yet diamond still at the getting advice stage so he can still build that cost in mate.

p.s.s if its your first job remember and be confident and positive when you go in to price let the customer see you are confident about the work mate

[diamondtiling]

I was replying to him being told he does not need to prime tiled walls prior to fixing?
of course he does, what are the tiles like that are on the walls ? if any are loose or cracked you need to try and get the customer to see that its best to get them off, "pay cheap, pay twice"

[GirlRacerRed]

Dom

What primer would you use when tiling on tiles?

GRR

[kilty55]

I was replying to him being told he does not need to prime tiled walls prior to fixing?
of course he does, what are the tiles like that are on the walls ? if any are loose or cracked you need to try and get the customer to see that its best to get them off, "pay cheap, pay twice"

ok mate stop bashing the wall lol i never said he didnt have to prime you are right its better gettin them off however some customers dont want the cost put up,a splashback shouldnt be too bad as long as its solid as you say

[diamondtiling]

Dom

What primer would you use when tiling on tiles?

GRR

Hi GRR, I use acrylic on everything, if its fixed to a wall its getting bonded,

kitchen tiles will always have ingrained dirts/ fats etc that should be cleaned off with sugar soap or similar, bonding is better than not bonding, why leave it out?

[daddy30]

I'm also putting ceramic tiles on ply using PCI tile fast 6, should I prime the ply before adhesive?

[diamondtiling]

Yes you should matey, what thickness is the ply, where is it situated??

[poynton phil]

You dont need to prime???? What? Bond all surfaces all the time, You should have built the cost of hiring an SDS for the floor tiles into your estimate, Even if you own one you should be charging accordingly,

I'v just spoke to mapei technical,and they said if you are tiling onto ceramic tiles then there is no need to prime, as long as you use the right addy. ie mapei kera quick

[diamondtiling]

Have you been ringing them for the last 3 hours

[poynton phil]

No, iv been upstairs painting the bathroom, while i'v got the time, just came down for a cuppa and read the posts.Surley if you put primer on a tiled wall it would'nt soak into the surface, but just run down the wall?

[diamondtiling]

So what would the addy stick to? Acrylic bonds all surfaces (most), the grout in the old tiles would be bonded, My opinion is apply to all surfaces, did mapei really say dont bond a ceramic surface? I would use full strength acrylic on a ceramic wall

[LM Ceramics]

I'm also putting ceramic tiles on ply using PCI tile fast 6, should I prime the ply before adhesive?

NO if the plywood is already fixed to the exsisting floor then dont prime the surface

if your plying the floor yourself prime the sides and back of the plywood which is recommended by BAL

[poynton phil]

So what would the addy stick to? Acrylic bonds all surfaces (most), the grout in the old tiles would be bonded, My opinion is apply to all surfaces, did mapei really say dont bond a ceramic surface? I would use full strength acrylic on a ceramic wall

Yes they did say theres no need to prime a ceramic surface, i'v probley not got the experience that you have, and it made me feel i was giving wrong advice thats why i checked. Now it time for a

[diamondtiling]

[daddy30]

Given that this is my first job do you think I am taking on too much? I've never tiled over tiles or taken up ceramic tiles before.

[diamondtiling]

That has to be your decision, only you know your capabilities, its straight forward enough and if you take your time I am sure you will be ok, whats your background? as in training etc

[daddy30]

I'm a time served bricklayer but went on a tiling and plastering (2 week course) about 2 months ago. This is the first tiling job I've got.

[smurf21]

As to bonding the ply check your addy some rec not bonding if your using bal they reccomend not to bond as the polymer in the mix does the job...

[daddy30]

Also the existing tiles have beading on the end that you can see, so when i put the new tiles on the top, how do i get round this?

[kilty55]

Given that this is my first job do you think I am taking on too much? I've never tiled over tiles or taken up ceramic tiles before.

i think its a good 1st job personally.
sounds like ceramics you will be working with so thats a plus ,,splashbacks are easy enough as long as youve covered setting out etc on your course.
using an sds drill with tile head ia also easy enuff then tiling a nice kitchen floor is also good

could be more difficult you could have a full bathroom to do mate

[Dave]

Acrylic primer is an impregnating primer...It will not impregnate a tiled surface...

If the tiles are a matt finish then clean down and use an S1 type adhesive , if the tiles are of a gloss/glaze finish then same again clean down and tile using an S2 type adhesive...Only primers that will help with tile on tile are epoxy primers or a slurry priming coat...

[terry the tiler]

You dont need to prime???? What? Bond all surfaces all the time, You should have built the cost of hiring an SDS for the floor tiles into your estimate, Even if you own one you should be charging accordingly,

wot sort of primer would you use m8 ?

[GirlRacerRed]

Also the existing tiles have beading on the end that you can see, so when i put the new tiles on the top, how do i get round this?

hi daddy30

that's a tough one. why don't you contact Tile Giant to see if they can recommend a deeper tile trim. but regarding the old one, I think you have 2 choices - cover it somehow with the new tiles and beading or try and slice it off with a sharp blade so that new trim can sit flush against the tiles and wall.

my initial reaction would be to try and convince the customer to let you take the old tiles off and start again. perhaps go round and place the new tiles over the old tiles and explain how the installation will look after. It might just convince the customer

let us know how you get on, and don't forget to take some photo's and post them on the forum... we like pics

GRR

[diamondtiling]

This will get loads of replies saying "oooohhhh look what diamond has mentioned, the dreaded pva word"
If I have to tile over tiles then I use Acrylic bond, I use it in its neat form, its sticky and it drys quick, just what i want, it does not impregnate I know but neither does the adhesive, I tried it about 5 years ago when doing a school during shutdown and it works, I painted an area of the old Kitchen walls with neat acrylic and put on about 20 white tiles, I did another area next to it, no bond just adhesive on the tiles, and it was powered adhesive, next day I could ping the tiles off the wall that had not been bonded, the ones with acrylic bond stayed put, until the dozer knocked the wall down, point is it works, and now the pva thing, I dont use it, I really dont ...........anymore, but I am waiting for the phone call from past works saying " Oi you Tiler, when that new acrylic bond came out as the new must have, all my tiles suddenly fell off the wall"............................................. .................................................. ...
.................................................. .................................................. .............
.................................................. .................................................. .............
.................................................. .................................................. ...............
still waiting.

And please dont start bamboozeling me with Magnus Pike's explanation of Impregnation or Albert Einsteins theory of stickability because i will fall asleep....zzzzzzzzzzz.

[Gazzatile]

There are sealers designed for hard surfaces this includes tiles and normally have some grit incorperated within them to give a good key the one I have used is from Ireland