1st Job: Thoughts appreciated

[jvanrijn]

Right, i am about to start ripping my bathroom out. I have spent ages reading posts on here and other forums and think i have a plan and would like thoughs.....Rather than asking loads of questions.

The bathroom is small 2m x 2m

FLOOR:

The current floor is solid (big joists, with 22mm floorboards). Wet UFH will be installed between the joists and screeded level with joists. I plan to discard the floorboards and lay 18mm WBP ply screwed at 30mm centres. Reasoning behind this is to minimize the height that the floor will be raised by. The ply will be covered with Ditra and the 60x60 rectified, pre sealed porcelain tiles with 1mm groutlines on the Ditra.


WALL 1:

Is plaster on brick, i intend to remove existing tiles and skirting, fill the gap behind the skirting with bonding plaster and prime this with acrylic primer and run the ditra mat up the wall an inch or two, and tile on with 10x10 ceramic tiles.



WALL 2:

Is plaster on brick and 30x20 tiles on it, these tile are well fixed and are recessed a little in the plaster so if i tile over them the level will not be silly. So i will tile over these with 60x60 porcelain. This wall will have the bath along it.

WALL 3:

Was a plasterboard stud and will form the corner of the shower bath with WALL 2. I was going to board it with wickes (knauf i think) aquapanel and use wickes aquapanel joint where it meets wall 2 and then tile with 10x10 ceramic tiles.

WALL 4:

Is currently tile on what must be aquapanel, because it gets drenched with no issues. I was going to replace these panes with as by the time i have taken the old tiles off and hacked all the plumbing in there they may not be in great shape, so aquapanel with 60x60 porcelain tiles

I cannot decide on what adhesives to use, i know it will be some expensive BAL but am not sure what is suitable for underneath the ditra etc.

I know 18mm might seem a bit lightweight but it is such a small area (only realy 2sq metres) and the floor as is is rock solid.

Thanks for taking the time to read this......pick away!

[doug boardley]

Right, i am about to start ripping my bathroom out. I have spent ages reading posts on here and other forums and think i have a plan and would like thoughs.....Rather than asking loads of questions.

The bathroom is small 2m x 2m

FLOOR:

The current floor is solid (big joists, with 22mm floorboards). Wet UFH will be installed between the joists and screeded level with joists. I plan to discard the floorboards and lay 18mm WBP ply screwed at 30mm centres. Reasoning behind this is to minimize the height that the floor will be raised by. The ply will be covered with Ditra and the 60x60 rectified, pre sealed porcelain tiles with 1mm groutlines on the Ditra.


WALL 1:

Is plaster on brick, i intend to remove existing tiles and skirting, fill the gap behind the skirting with bonding plaster and prime this with acrylic primer and run the ditra mat up the wall an inch or two, and tile on with 10x10 ceramic tiles.



WALL 2:

Is plaster on brick and 30x20 tiles on it, these tile are well fixed and are recessed a little in the plaster so if i tile over them the level will not be silly. So i will tile over these with 60x60 porcelain. This wall will have the bath along it.

WALL 3:

Was a plasterboard stud and will form the corner of the shower bath with WALL 2. I was going to board it with wickes (knauf i think) aquapanel and use wickes aquapanel joint where it meets wall 2 and then tile with 10x10 ceramic tiles.

WALL 4:

Is currently tile on what must be aquapanel, because it gets drenched with no issues. I was going to replace these panes with as by the time i have taken the old tiles off and hacked all the plumbing in there they may not be in great shape, so aquapanel with 60x60 porcelain tiles

I cannot decide on what adhesives to use, i know it will be some expensive BAL but am not sure what is suitable for underneath the ditra etc.

I know 18mm might seem a bit lightweight but it is such a small area (only realy 2sq metres) and the floor as is is rock solid.

Thanks for taking the time to read this......pick away!

1. I'd use probably 3mm, to allow for thermal expansion
2. use sand and cement render, rather than gypsum based plaster
3. what's your reason to run the ditra up the wall?
4. I doubt very much that the substrate will bear up to having the extra tiles on, especially as its plaster and you're putting heavy porcelain tiles on
5. A single part flexible adhesive, ie Mapei keraquick is better value than bal imo!
6. 18mm wbp is fine

good luck mate

[Sir Ramic]

Right, i am about to start ripping my bathroom out. I have spent ages reading posts on here and other forums and think i have a plan and would like thoughs.....Rather than asking loads of questions.

The bathroom is small 2m x 2m

FLOOR:

The current floor is solid (big joists, with 22mm floorboards). Wet UFH will be installed between the joists and screeded level with joists. I plan to discard the floorboards and lay 18mm WBP ply screwed at 30mm centres. Reasoning behind this is to minimize the height that the floor will be raised by. The ply will be covered with Ditra and the 60x60 rectified, pre sealed porcelain tiles with 1mm groutlines on the Ditra.

If you are screeding the floor why not remove joists and just have the screeded floor, no need for the ply then ???
1mm grout lines dont meet BS spec, should be 2-3mm


WALL 1:

Is plaster on brick, i intend to remove existing tiles and skirting, fill the gap behind the skirting with bonding plaster and prime this with acrylic primer and run the ditra mat up the wall an inch or two, and tile on with 10x10 ceramic tiles.

You will find bending Ditra harder than it looks, and why are you wanting it up the wall ?
Tiling to Bonding is a No NO



WALL 2:

Is plaster on brick and 30x20 tiles on it, these tile are well fixed and are recessed a little in the plaster so if i tile over them the level will not be silly. So i will tile over these with 60x60 porcelain. This wall will have the bath along it.

I wouldnt risk using tiles of such a size onto that surface, much better to remove and do it right.

WALL 3:

Was a plasterboard stud and will form the corner of the shower bath with WALL 2. I was going to board it with wickes (knauf i think) aquapanel and use wickes aquapanel joint where it meets wall 2 and then tile with 10x10 ceramic tiles.

Cant see much wrong there but wait until the end.

WALL 4:

Is currently tile on what must be aquapanel, because it gets drenched with no issues. I was going to replace these panes with as by the time i have taken the old tiles off and hacked all the plumbing in there they may not be in great shape, so aquapanel with 60x60 porcelain tiles

I cannot decide on what adhesives to use, i know it will be some expensive BAL but am not sure what is suitable for underneath the ditra etc.

For fixing Ditra you can use a Single part flexible adhesive mixed wettter than normal.

I know 18mm might seem a bit lightweight but it is such a small area (only realy 2sq metres) and the floor as is is rock solid.

Thanks for taking the time to read this......pick away!

Sounds like a big job so i would be inclined to gut the room and do it properly. My choice of materials would be, either plasterboard the walls and cover with waterproof membrane such as Dura WP or Kerdi.
As for adhesives and grouts Mapei would be my 1st choice.

[jvanrijn]

Thanks for that, a ditra lip doesn't really make sense now i am trying to think of a reason.

Few followup Qs:

Would i still need to prime the render?
As for the over tile I suspected that the weight might be an issue, so i guess i break it out and fix aquapanel to the brick?

[Sir Ramic]

No need to prime sand and cement render.

[jvanrijn]

Thanks again, I am feeling a bit more confident that i am on the right track.

Sir Ramic,
I should have mentioned the bathroom is on the 1st floor, the screed is purely to provide thermal mass. I'm all for doing a proper job and accept relining the wall i was going to overtile is the way to go. I left the tanking membrane out as it adds another £100 or so and tiles where the existing shower is are holding up to some serious soaking due to a rubbish shower installation, which lead me to think WP is bit ott, i will reconsider.

Jasper

[Sir Ramic]

Thanks again, I am feeling a bit more confident that i am on the right track.

Sir Ramic,
I should have mentioned the bathroom is on the 1st floor, the screed is purely to provide thermal mass. I'm all for doing a proper job and accept relining the wall i was going to overtile is the way to go. I left the tanking membrane out as it adds another £100 or so and tiles where the existing shower is are holding up to some serious soaking due to a rubbish shower installation, which lead me to think WP is bit ott, i will reconsider.

Jasper

So what will stop the screed going through the ceiling then? Maybe i am not imagining this correctly but seems odd to me.

Could i ask how much you estimate the job costing? i feel the the membrane will be a good investment.

[jvanrijn]

battons on the joists with 6mm ply with 50mm kingspan on it and then 60mm of screed, pretty standard in-joist wet UFH heating setup i thought. the total spend on the bathroom will be £3k-£3.5 of which roughly £700 is on tiling.
I assume the membrane is only required in the shower area?

Cheers

[doug boardley]

struggling to visualize it, why not use a heat mat?

[Sir Ramic]

battons on the joists with 6mm ply with 50mm kingspan on it and then 60mm of screed, pretty standard in-joist wet UFH heating setup i thought. the total spend on the bathroom will be £3k-£3.5 of which roughly £700 is on tiling.
I assume the membrane is only required in the shower area?

Cheers

I dont know, i dont do wet systems but i am thinking here that savings could be made my using electric UFH.
Membrane is only needed in wet areas but your previous post about turning the ditra up the wall lead me to believe you were trying to obtain a wet room type area ?

[jvanrijn]

http://www.systemlink.ie/upimg/UFH_TFS1b_400.gif probably speaks 1000 words. i have it all plumbed in and am hoping it will be cheaper to run as it warms up when ever the boiler is on (be it for heating or ho****er), i know matting would have been easier, but it's too late now, in theory the tiling should be more straight forward like this.

[jvanrijn]

i abandonned the wet room idea, so this is a straight forward shower over bath setup. i guess the ditra lip popped into my head because where the ply meets the cement screed might be a weak point for water to get through, say if the bath over flowed or something, but i gather flexible sealant between the tiles where the wall meets the floor should be enough for a hopefully dry area.

Ta

[Sir Ramic]

In that case why not use a strip of Dura WP to bridge any gaps between the Ditra and the wall......i believe Ditra do one too Schlüter-KERDI.
Schlüter-KERDI-FIX - Schlüter-Systems

[jvanrijn]

I have gutted the room and will be fitting plasterboard on all walls (dot & dab onto brick and screwing onto the studs). I'll then tank it with kerdi, do i need to prime the plasterboard?

[Alpha Omega]

Hi Juanrijn

Have you seen the Wet UFH kits that City Plumbing sell, complete with easy lay boards, just wind the plastic tubing around the cut outs,

No messy screeding required

Regards
Gary

[jvanrijn]

Hi,

I have but if you didn't want to raise the floor by an extra 15mm (at least) you would need to cut these and suspend them between the joists, the screeding is a 30min job as you are screeding to the level of the joists, just chuck it on and run a trowel over the joists. The hardest part is routing the barrier pipe through the joists (i wish I had made the holes a few mm bigger).

Jasper