Help!: lifting tiles

[boxhead]

hi everyone,i have come across a problem twice in 2 weeks where the ceramic tiles after a number of years just start banging and lifting and in the 2 cases the adhesive has been on the concrete floor but not on the tile.im baffled by this and i have to relay these floors with new tiles and the customer wants answers and reasurrance that the same wont hapen again. i would appeciate lads all the help you can give me.thanks boxhead

[Alan.P]

This has been mentioned on the forums before, one possible answer was that the adhesive used had 'skinned over' before the tiles had been laid, thus not bonding to the tile. A few more details might help, adhesive type, fixing technique etc.

[smurf21]

Tiles dont just give up the ghost after two years for no reason, has there been any major movement ie extensions, wall removals,etc if not then as alan p says may be the way they were laid originaly and slight movement over the years has finally broken down what little adhesion they had, further investigation is needed as to the cause before gauranteing a new instalation i think.

[pjc]

a thin layer of vinyl adhesive maybe :Pete

[CJ CERAMICS]

maybe the floor was not prepped properley ie dust, no bonding agent or as alan said maybe the addy has skinned and the tiles failed to bond.

[boxhead]

thanks all for your views.these tiles were supposedly fitted by top tilers. the one floor had been down 7 years with no probs and all of a sudden they just started popping. if they were on a wooden floor maybe i could understand but these were on a good concrete floor and in both cases the tiles came up with little or no adhesive on them and the adhesive was stuck fast to the floor..im going to see the customer tonight and i was hoping for some answers to make it sound like i new what may have caused this problem. thanks all. boxhead

[grumpygrouter]

thanks all for your views.these tiles were supposedly fitted by top tilers. the one floor had been down 7 years with no probs and all of a sudden they just started popping. if they were on a wooden floor maybe i could understand but these were on a good concrete floor and in both cases the tiles came up with little or no adhesive on them and the adhesive was stuck fast to the floor..im going to see the customer tonight and i was hoping for some answers to make it sound like i new what may have caused this problem. thanks all. boxhead

Were they porcelain tiles fixed with non flexy addy?

[pjc]

not back buttered on a floor

[Alan.P]

Were they porcelain tiles fixed with non flexy addy?

First post says ceramic grumpy.

not back buttered on a floor

Why would they have to be ????

[Dave]

Also some floors have insulation under the screed ( kingspan) and as a result thermal movement in the substrate...so if standard rapid was used the it might no cope with the stress and delaminate...

No expansion joints around the perimeter of the substrate is another reason and also no perimeter joints to the tiling..

[Alan.P]

Expansion is another good call, been hot recently, although they've been down for years, we need some more info after the site visit tonight

[pjc]

First post says ceramic grumpy.




Why would they have to be ????

All floors should be a solid bed

[Alan.P]

All floors should be a solid bed

Agreed, but no need to backbutter with correct trowel and fixing

[grumpygrouter]

First post says ceramic grumpy.

Was just a thought, as ceramic and porcelain are man made, and in the same way, albeit that porc has finer materials and fired differently. Sometimes "normal" ceramic can be mistaken for porcelain if not checked carefully.

[pjc]

Agreed, but no need to backbutter with correct trowel and fixing

IT also keys better somthing imo should always be done

[timeless john]

I'am with Pjc here - If you flat skim the backs of the floor tiles it gives a better hold for the adhesive, almost guarantees solid bed fixing, and as may be the case here - if the adhesive trowelled onto the floor has skinned a bit then it freshens it up!.
As far as reassuring you customer we are getting back to guarantees again! Without analysing the adhesive used it would be differcult to tell why it failed after 'a number of years'
Your description is of the tiles 'banging' is this a hollow noise when tapped?
Hope you get your answers for tonight!

John.

[Ajax123]

I know it is stating the obvious but if the addy is stuck to the concrete floor but not to the tile that is a failure at the interface between the tile and the addy. If the delamination was being caused by movement in the substrate I would expect the addy to part company with the concrete and not the tile or at least some on each. Also the length of time before the problem occurred is a bit suspect. Tiles don't stay stuck for years and then just fall off do they?. I like the addy skinned over prior to tiling but surely then the tiles would have delaminated quite quickly. Is there a shift in the moisture levels in the system which could have blown the tiles? I did see lots and lots of tile problems couple of years ago when we got the major floods in Sheffield and the Midlands. Many of these were not a result of direct flooding but because of an upward shift in the local water table causing substrates to become "suddenly" wet - it was particularly noticeable over block and beam floors.

[boxhead]

hi this is boxhead, thanks to all for your views on this. i have just come from the customers house and she had all the tiles removed by a relative.after inspection i noticed that a lot of the remaining addy was fairly easy to remove with a scraper.about half of the floor the addy is fairly secure to the floor. i think after talking to the customer that it was a new extension so i put it down to 2 things .1.the floor was not sealed properly , maybe dusty prior to the addy and 2. there was some movement as suggested(thanks)in the substrate causing the tiles to pop especially with the not well sealed floor.well thats my theory and im going to scrape the floor clean and seal it well and use a quality addy and im surre all will be fine. thanks to all for the input.

[doug boardley]

I thought it may have been dust on the tile biscuit

[Ajax123]

I thought it may have been dust on the tile biscuit

Can you dunk these tile biscuits in your coffee and do they come in chocolate

[doug boardley]

Can you dunk these tile biscuits in your coffee and do they come in chocolate

lol, only advisable if you're a James Bond villain...

[pjc]

Doug i have seen that b4