How to create a removable ceramic floor tile?

[Midge6]

Hi, I’m hoping someone here can point me in the right direction with this problem. Some time back we had a leaking heating pipe under a tile floor, unfortunately we only had one spare tile and in spite of extensive enquiries we could not find any more. We took the decision to completely disconnect the leaking pipe circuit and run a new one. This wasn’t easy, as we had to drill 90 cm under the tile floor from the access point (See attached picture) to a point where we could start the new circuit. Having completed the pipe work, we are now wondering how to close the hole, ideally, we would like to be able to fit our one and only spare tile in such a way that it could be lifted out if needs be. The overall depth of the hole is about 11 cm and at their highest point, the copper pipes are 35mm to 45 mm below the finished top surface of the tiles and the ceramic tiles are 31cm square and 7 mm thick. Allowing for a bit of expansion and insulation, it would seem that we only have about 25mm filling between the underside of the tile and the top of the pipe insulation. Any ideas would be appreciated; I should add that the pipes will be insulated to allow for expansion. If the removable tile is a non starter how should we fill the hole and provide adequate support for the tile?
Looking forward to your comments,
Many thanks,

Midge.

[Matt]

Personally, I can't think of any way that you could do this without the risk of the tile cracking when stood upon. But, if there is a away, these guys will know it

Edit: I have seen things like magnets used to do this on walls. But that would leave a void under the tile and it would have absolutely no strength

[faithhealer]

It's that big void in the middle thats the problem. How about stick the tile to apiece of 25 ply (at least the tile is supported) then dig out a hole to accomodate it. then silicon the grout gap. Would have to be a good flat surface on the bottom of the hole because if you use any addy or silicon, it ain't coming back out again!

[theyomper]

My thought on this would be to have made a manhole type plate. So that the frame work would sit inside and that the tile would be fixed to the cover.
I have had to do this in the past but with a rather larger manhole, covering an well that was found in the floor whilst replacing the floor. It was in a shop and within a main traffic area and I have not been called back to replace any cracked tiles to date.

[jay]

hi agree with theyomper you need a steel plate to support tile as mentioned tile needs total support

[Midge6]

Thanks guys for your input – much appreciated!
The consensus so far seems to be that I stick the tile to plywood or a steel plate, open up the hole and slot the tile in. That sounds reasonable, except I would be worried about the changing temperature of the pipes leading to warped plywood or, in the case of the steel plate, a different expansion rate between the steel and the tile both leading to the tile eventually cracking? Going on from this idea though, would it be possible to cast a 25mm sand/cement mix to the back of my tile, allow it to cure and then set it in the hole? Alternatively, what about a 3 or 4 tile sandwich joined together with tile cement? Sorry if this all sounds a bit wacky, but when you’ve only one tile to play with it makes you think twice before you do anything.
I’ll let you mull that one over…
Many thanks
Midge.

[faithhealer]

I think that tile would never come back up again, pipework has been sorted so it's a thousand to one that it will give you anymore trouble. Mask the copper up, (any plastic sheet , sand and cement to height of floor then adhesive and tile and grout, proper job done.

[Midge6]

I think that tile would never come back up again, pipework has been sorted so it's a thousand to one that it will give you anymore trouble. Mask the copper up, (any plastic sheet , sand and cement to height of floor then adhesive and tile and grout, proper job done.

You’re probably right, but the bit I didn’t explain, as I didn’t want to make my post too long, is that there are a couple of other joints further down the line under the tiled floor that “might” give trouble in the future. If they do, I would need to change the tees to elbows (Disconnecting the offending circuit) and run an alternative circuit avoiding the tiled floor. I have had 2 leaking joints already, fortunately, only one was under the tiled floor. If I can organise a removable tile, it will at the very least give me peace of mind for the future.
Many thanks
Midge.

[faithhealer]

can't a circuit be re routed before and after the tiled floor?

[Midge6]

can't a circuit be re routed before and after the tiled floor?

Yes, re-routing could be done, but not without a lot of concrete floors being dug up, radiators being moved, decorating and ensuing general mayhem – believe me, a removable tile would probably save me about a week’s work and a lot of ear ache! What do you think to the tile sandwich or sand/cement reinforcing?
Many thanks
Midge

[faithhealer]

Yes, re-routing could be done, but not without a lot of concrete floors being dug up, radiators being moved, decorating and ensuing general mayhem – believe me, a removable tile would probably save me about a week’s work and a lot of ear ache! What do you think to the tile sandwich or sand/cement reinforcing?
Many thanks
Midge

Think I would put the tile in properly and forget about it. A new tiled floor is the worst senario, easier than the 'above' mayhem

[Midge6]

Think I would put the tile in properly and forget about it. A new tiled floor is the worst senario, easier than the 'above' mayhem

I don’t want to bore the pants off everyone here, I have just said as much as I though necessary to see if there is a practical solution to my problem. To explain further, the tiled floor in question stretches from the porch by the front door through a very large hall area and includes the dining room. All the skirting and door architraves are fitted on top of the floor as is a fancy internal porch/hall glass door frame. To make matters more complicated, the open plan staircase sits on the tiled floor too. In the light of all this, you will doubtless understand, re-tiling the floor is not a project I have any desire in contemplating anytime soon. If it took me a couple of days to make up some kind of removable tile system, it would be time well spent IF I ever needed to use it.
To sum up, there are varying degrees of mayhem – re-tiling about 80 sq yards of flooring would be in a category of its own.
Many thanks
Midge.

PS Please keep the ideas coming - it is appreciated.

[Dave]

Hi midge...

Stick the tile to 6mm hardi backer....obviously you will need to lower that section of floor to accomadate the thickness...then bed the tile on a weak sand/cement mix...making sure it is packed in tight so it does not sink...then silicone the joint to prevent side to side movement..

Then it will lift out if needed but still have strength to support it but bieng a weak mix it will simply rake out easier.

[Midge6]

Hi midge...

Stick the tile to 6mm hardi backer....obviously you will need to lower that section of floor to accomadate the thickness...then bed the tile on a weak sand/cement mix...making sure it is packed in tight so it does not sink...then silicone the joint to prevent side to side movement..

Then it will lift out if needed but still have strength to support it but bieng a weak mix it will simply rake out easier.

Thanks Dave, that sounds interesting.
I’ve just had a look at the Hardibacker Web site so I think I follow what you’re saying, but to be clear, if I wanted to get the tile up in the future, how would I go about it? Also, what would you consider to be a weak sand/cement mix – I’m thinking 7 or 8 to 1? Not wishing to sound cheeky but , have you seen this done yourself?

Many thanks
Midge.

[Dave]

That is the best option i can think of to make the bed easier to remove...

NO hasn't been done by me before....but it's an option....Or one of the above....which ever way you do it needs to able to with stand foot traffic..

Personally i would just fill the hole and tile as normal...keep your fingers crossed....if the pipes do fail then thats what insurances are for...

[Midge6]

That is the best option i can think of to make the bed easier to remove...

NO hasn't been done by me before....but it's an option....Or one of the above....which ever way you do it needs to able to with stand foot traffic..

Personally i would just fill the hole and tile as normal...keep your fingers crossed....if the pipes do fail then thats what insurances are for...

Thanks Dave (And everyone else!) for all your suggestions – I’ll be mulling this over for a while longer, in the mean time; I’m still open to any other ideas.
Anyone...?
Many thanks
Midge.

[smurf21]

i would chop out enough of the floor to take 18mm ply and a tile,fix the tile to the board and either drill and screw to floor depending where it lies or loose lay and silicone the joint with coloured sealant fill the void first with sand. ( this is not a tried and tested method just an idea)

[devonmark]

i would just fill and tile, after all...all pipe work can potentially give us problems in the future, if we where to think along them lines all pipe work would be exposed..

[silver]

Hi Midge
Maybe...but its a lot of messing and you will have minimum two small holes in your tile to fill with silicon the same colour as your grout along with silicon around it...if you dont mind that ?
Stick your tile to a same size piece of hardibacker (12mm)
In your pipe work hole if you have solid areas away from the piped...(pic looks like you do) ....drill and plug/screw a square piece of 18mm ply at a depth difference of exactly what your tile stuck to the 12mm hardibacker board is....so when tile / hardibacker is in place its all level...you may need to pack this up ? THERE MUST BE NO MOVEMENT
Then drill a 5 > 6mm in two places on your tile or even four if you are happy with that.....just drill the tile not the backer board....you could use another piece of 18mm ply instead of hardibacker if you wish if that helps take up the hole depth.
Place the tile you have stuck on your board onto its "base" in the hole and screw fix through your holes with thin screws ...using the right colour silicon as per your grout.....seal in your tile...........on the screw heads stick a small adhesive cover. This is to stop the silicon sticking to the screw head. Use a stationery hole punch on a sticky label..that would be ideal....I told you it would be fiddly !! then if you need to lift..your screwdriver will easily push through the sticker .....then silicon fill the holes......... when needed for access dig out the holes break the surround and unscrew from base then unscrew base.

....if you cant quite make the exact depth when you insert you tile on the board ie its slightly shallow...you could pack it with rigid rubber matting (1>2mm) or even layers of thin not corrugated cardboard.....should it move ever so slightly with foot traffic the silicon will absorb it.....or be fussy like me and get it just right !!!

I aint done this so far myself but if I needed to in my own house or a customers ...this would be what I would do....the small holes and the surround filled with silicon I could live with knowing I could get at the pipes.

hope this helps ?