what would you do

[jay]

hi all had a call from grumpy lady on monday she recently purchased a unit i tiled 5 years ago she told me the tiles were falling of shower walls and what do i intend to do about it. set up time to have a bo peep. very cold reception on arrival .she has a leak in shower wall and called her insurance . they viewed and checked plumbing (removed tap cover plate and looked ) no leak was there call just shody work by tiler no waterproofing . ( standing in large self dug hole) i informed grumpy lady it is waterproofed (dont think she belives me) what i did originally was render concrete floor of shower cube for falls waterproof walls and floor fix floor tiles including waterstop to shower door area fix tiles to two walls of shower and total area of hob grout and silicone .(standard stuff ) now shower didnt look pretty at all tap wall bowed out around taps 6mm tiles solid grout hairlined cracks (exp with bow) back wall fine .hob sh-- not good (1mx1mx120mm) all external edges cracked wide open 4mm at top ledge down to 1mm at floor tiles all solid grout had seen better days all silicone in shower good .on top of hob now sits (didnt see finished bathroom) glass panel on outer edge of hob top (65 to 70kg in total top tiles on hob are now 4mm above chrome edge on inside wow but all solid (hole getting deeper) so whats next . i remove tap cover plate (mixer) joy can see waterproofing show grumpy lady. gap between p/b and tap fitting void (plumber hasnt siliconed up ) suggest to grompy lady this could be her prob same goes for shower fitting .she agrees as for hob shine torch down cracks and show g/l w/p in tact .she tells me org builder said its constructed of treated timber frame covered in cement sheet.( and yes i checked the building code and you can use treated in bathrooms ) builder said water must be getting into treated causing it to swell not his prob (must have been a brain surgeon in prev life ) okay tell g/l ill check with my ins to see what happens here and suggest she rings builder reg gaps around tap fittings. my ins said do not touch anything or you are addmitting fault and its builders fault due to voids around taps.(you learn something every day never used my insurace before) got a call from builder telling me its my fault and i have to fix or my name is mud arguee with him for 20 mins and then realize mobile will hang up if thrwn 20m or more (hole is way to deep) okay that is part 1 sorry for the length couldnt shorten now what would you do post replies ps builder also informed me he has contacted master builders association (think i might strike oil soon big hole), part 2 soon true story

[Frosty]

Not a nice situation, but what guarantees were given with the work when you did it?
The problems sound like they were there BEFORE this "lady" recently purchased the unit, therefore she might be trying to be a bit cute and get a big saving on buying cost and getting you to redo it for free.
Do you currently do a lot of work for the builder? Are there problems with any other of your installations for them?

Sounds like a bit of a judgement call this one, but if other trades haven't done their work properly then it could be a case of you're off the hook.

Let us know how you get on

[jay]

hi frosty was new building 5 years back i was contracted by original owner not builder never had a prob with my work to date not of this mag (aprox cost of repairs $2500 aud) not one of my builders hes a bit rough builders i currently use are as happy as larry and cant understand it

[wetdec]

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And in english ?..................


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[jay]

do you mean curancy wetdeck about 2 aud equals one of yours i think

[Ajax123]

Not sure about things in Tasmania but under UK contract law your contract was not with the lady who has purchased the unit. You have no obligation to her whatever. Your contract was with the original owner. He can pass on guarantees etc but this generally has to be done specifically and in writing at the time of sale. I am reasonably certain that it is not something that can be passed on retrospectively. Otherwise I would be claiming from the people who built my house 170 years ago for things which have been done badly (they are still in business). If it were me in that situation I would not even entertain talking to her if she did not treat me in a civil manner. Things go wrong. We all understand that. None of us go to work in order to do a "shody" job. If you are aksed to carry out repairs and you feel a moral obligation to do so then fine but it sounds like whe is a right trout and has not asked you nicely. Just because someone says it is your ault does not make it so in law. If you are confident that you fulfilled your original contract and have carried things out in a proffessional manner then I can't see whay you would want to et involved. I guess your gurantee extends to fair wear and tear. You cannot possibly know how the unit has been treated in the five years since you tiled it. In the UK it would be up to them to prove negligence and unless they start to treat you in a reasonable manner I would be incluined to tell them where to get off.

One thing lots of small businesses in the UK also fail to do is limit their liability. If you look at the conditions you see on most invoices and delivery notes from large companies they always put a clause limiting them to the cost of replacement of materials only. This in law limits their liability so that they are not legally obliged to pay for things like ripping up concrete floors, disposal of waste, paying for carpets which might need to come up and all the things that clients lump into the "costs" of repairs. Might be worth checking it out in Tas for future reference.

[jay]

hi ajax 123 here in taz new buildings normally have a 7 year housing cover provided by builder doesnt cover me supposivley and what you say is true but taz is a small island and word travels fast and i am overhelpful g/l is getting no were and being advised wrong im not the type to stand back and be walked over ( the builder in question has got a big mouth and has REMOVED me off )

[Daveyboy]

Hi Jay..not sure of rules in Taz but I would definately do exactly what your insurance company says..I would write to both the builder and grumpy lady, telling them exactly what your insurers have told you to do and that you are prepared to do exactly what your insurers tell you to do in connection with this unfortunate situation and that they should liaise directly with them regarding how to resolve this situation..

If you hear you're being criticised by the builder/grumpy lady, I'd check with your solicitor and see if a letter warning of slander would be appropriate...

Good luck...

[jay]

hi daveyboy both parties have been informed of my ins situation (builder said he doesnt worry about using his. something about time you pay your exex your best just pay for it yourself and i replied why the REMOVED have insurance //at that stage mobile left hand

[jay]

hi all part 2 very REMOVED of with builder. contact my insurance tell full story they agree to pay half costs ,start quoting job contact w/p supplier(last time we spoke he said any probs call him)explained problem he couldnt understand it and asked what hob is constructed from i told him treated timber .30 sec silance he asked again. and told me to do nothing until i recieve fax from him,20 mins later fax reads aust building codes page 406 construction of hob and states hob must be constructed of masonary or concrete. and further down page timber is not to be used in construction of hob. ring supplier as copy i have is 2009 what about 2004. he replies its worded exactly the same.(feeling like a dog with three tails) make copy of w/p and hob construction codes go see g/l hand her copies and say due to the attitude of builder and aust standards i will not be fixing her problem (walk away) she agrees, (friday just gone) saturday afternoon rec call building inspector (tiled 2 of his houses good client) informs me builder was on phone for last hour trying to find way out of problem, and just thought id like to know. tah. sunday 10am builder rings me tells me plumber and glazier will fix and he will remove hob and build new hob using hardwood, and i should fix tile problem .told him nup,he then threatned to call consumer affaires for fair trading, i said bring it on ,and hung up, hopefully end of story.thanks for your time hope you learned as i had to i would be interested to know your code on hobs cheers

[curlycan]

please explain what hobs are or the equivalent in the uk cheers.

[lucius]

Yes mate we dont know what a hob is in the U.K. even though ive worked in Aus ive never heard the term here its the bit on top of the oven where you cook with pots and pans and ime sure you aint got one of them in the shower.
Lucius

[jay]

hi all hob is a short wall normally used to seperate shower from baths with glass screen on top to make shower cube its height can vary from 100mm up as long as its not atached to ceiling its called a hob , hope that helps

[redrex]

do you mean curancy wetdeck about 2 aud equals one of yours i think

spending and buying power is about the same though....so AUS$2500 gets you the same as £2500 british ponds stirling. well twas when i was there.

Ed