big problem, need advice please

[bluevin123]

Hi all,

Went to look at this job on Thursday eve and its a town house.Anyway its five years old and the bloke has had his ensuite tiled completely 3 times since due to water getting in somehow and has caused two ceilings to come down in the past as well as other damage.

The bottom row of tiles he pulled of with his hands where they have got wet and the plaster board behind has come away completely leaving a large hole clearly showing the stud work. The stud seems ok though.

A plumber mate of mine has been round and checked out the pipes and all sorts and the only place he can think where the water is getting in is there is some blue film on the top of the shower tray on the outside edge,where its been siliconed you could still see some of the film.
Maybe the water has got in here and worked its way up the wall.

What I suggested was taking the next two rows of tiles up which is about a metre high up to see how far it has spread, and if all seems ok, was gonna put aqua board up to the stud and join it with the rest of the wall.

Not sure if I can join aqua board to a plasterboard wall.Was thinking of using the joining tape, and if needed tank the area as well.
He said he just want it sorted once and for all understandbly.
I would love to be the one that cures his problem,which in turn could maybe bring me more work from him in the future. Would just like to do the right thing and cure it but want some advice from you experienced guys.

Sorry for the long thread,and cheers in advance.

Vinnie.

[faithhealer]

Well, first thing, Aqua board is probably a different thickness to the plasterboard but where the water is coming from, is the issue. when you reboard it (It's going to be sodden at least a metre though) buy a tanking kit and tape the join between tray and plasterboard. (You have to be sure though that this is the cause, check the tray is not moving when you stand in it, just had one sink a mm when someone was in it and pull away from the silicon!!)

[bluevin123]

Thanks Faithhealer,

Good point, was sure there was no movement in it, but like you say it only has to move a mm and it could be knackered again,I will tank it like you say and make sure the tray dont budge at all,then silicone it.
Cheers.
Vinnie.

[faithhealer]

Three tile jobs in 5 yrs, got to be something that people are missing

[Alan.P]

Three tile jobs in 5 yrs, got to be something that people are missing

Yep.

Is it wet behind the boards, if not, the water may be from somewhere else completely and tracking, maybe time for a bit of investigation under floorboards and in attic space, if there is an attic.

[timeless john]

Morning Bluevin123!
Its a town house - thats the problem. It wouldn't happen in the country!
Seriously though if youv'e had a plumber to check the pipework out already it would lead me to think about movement in the tray. It may have been tiled down onto the protective blue film of the shower tray which when cut back to rubber silicone seal has meant that the silicone has not adhered to the tray completely. I normally silicone the tray then tile then silicone again to give a double seal. If the bottom row has 'fallen off' it would seem that the tiles have been stuck to the tray by the silicone and with downward movement of the tray a hairline crack has appeared in the first joint above and water ingress has started the problem.
I think your solution is correct with aquapanel up to 1 metre and the difference in thickness of the join can be taken out with adhesive.
What i would ask is how big (weight wise) is your customer, is it a rigid timber floor that it stands on and can you add support to the tray from underneath to ensure no movement.Good kuck,
John.

[Oli]

Is it against and external wall, has he considered the possibility that water is coming in from the outside of the house.

If its been tiled 3 times in the last 5 years i think i would be wanting to rip everything out and start over again rather than potentially wasting money on a repair job only to find the same thing happen again having spent even more cash.

From what he's spent on three repairs he's probably already spent more that a rip out and refit.

[lucius]

Oli Is maybe right grab the bull by the horns and rip the lot out.
Lucius.

[pud]

Yep thats the way rip it all out start from the begining double check everything before you start to rebuild it

[whitebeam]

The trouble with repair work is that if theres a problem after your've repaired it it suddenly becomes your problem from then on

[little ken]

if the house is only 5 years old i think the floor joists have settled and
shrunk.making the shower tray drop.leaving a gap between tray and tile.

[cornish_crofter]

I'm with Oli on this one.

Rip out and refit. Whilst everything is out including plasterboard etc it would be a good time to investigate for any issues with concealed plumbing/building settlement etc.

I tend to adopt this approach with jobs like this. A few years ago a client had a problem with a leaking valley in their roof. Numerous builders had been up there, patched it up and 3 months later it was leaking again. Over a few years this cost them about as much as I charged them to fix the problem permenantly.

I took down the affected area of ceiling below, then ripped up the lead in the valley over the affected area. The whole problem was down to a 4 inch nail beneath the lead in the gulley that had not been hammered home properly when the roof was redone, the head had penetrated the lead from underneath!

This was put right, new lead relayed and they have had no problems for about 4 years so far.

So I now adopt a policy. If the fault keeps reappearing, I recommend a rip out instead of tinkering.

[mikethetile]

hi bluevin

rip it out mate and rebuild with either hardie backer or aquapanel

also tank..........wetdecs are doing a deal for tanking membrane

you can probably reuse the tray just clean the film off and double seal

get this one right and i will be a good boost to your busin ess

tell the geezer theres no point in just retiling as the problem will remain

[IvegotsTILE]

I completely agree with Oli and Whitebeam,better safe than sorry

[bluevin123]

Thanks a lot guys for your very thought provoking answers,I think a refit could be the case to get to the root of it,and like you say I dont want it to be a future problem for me,I want him to be happy and tell his mates that I with the help of the forum cured it YESSSSSS!
I took a tile away with me to try to match the existing tiles, but cant seem to get one anyway,so I think that confirms the best way.
Shall get back to him and let you know.
Thanks again.
Vinnie.

[tommyzooom]

Have done a few repair jobs similar to yours,
If possible I like to leave a gap of about 5mm around the tray, tank down past the top of the tray(use a float or, even better tank before tray is fitted)and then fill the gap with lots of silicone,the tile will cover this,and then a neat bead of silicone after it's tiled
Much better to stand movement to tray than a thin bead of silicone or tape
Your client should be able to make a claim on his house insurance to cover the repair by the way

[Dan]

I too would want to really get to the bottom of the route of the problem. I'd recommend ripping it out too, though perhaps you could do it bit by bit in the hope you find the problem before ripping it all out.

Sounds like it really needs tanking properly this time, though if the 'damp' is in area's where the shower/bath isn't, then it might be a problem much greater than just the tiling as suggested above a couple of times.

[doug boardley]

I'd go for a full rip out too, also do a test on the waste trap, pipework etc whilst everything is exposed, I can't see 3 tilers getting the same ingress problem, (unless, of course, the shower tray is moving somehow)