Tiling large area - Spacers or no spacers?

[rob]

Hi guys, just following on from the thread about battons or not to batton - how many use spacers when tiling large floor area (say upwards of 20 m2)? I find it better to ping a chalk line and work to that as the varyation in tile size puts you out if using spacers!

Would be interested to learn what others do in this situation to keep straight?

[sWe]

I tend to ping a chalk line and go by it for the most part, but occasionally I use rope as well.

[rob]

I but occasionally I use rope as well.

How do you use the rope, and how do you keep the tenssion on it?

[lucius]

I use 4 metre long alluminium straight edge measured from the last row of tiles normaly 2 courses weighted down with a couple of boxs of tiles everything else is done with the tape and the eye checked every now and then with laser line, tried rope but found it to expensive.
Lucius.

[Alpha Omega]

How do you use the rope, ?

To hang yourself when it all goes pear shaped

[mickyc]

Dont give him ideas

[rob]

To hang yourself when it all goes pear shaped

I could have used that rope today when I was stuck in the middle of a VERY painfull re-grout!!!!

[sWe]

How do you use the rope, and how do you keep the tenssion on it?

Think of rope as a 20m long spacer. You need the kind that is not particularly stretchable and uniform in thickness.

Soak it in water and then squeese the water out. That makes it easy to clean.

The principle is similar on floors as on the picture. You don't have to use battens on floors though, for obvious reasons. Takes a bit getting used to, but it's damn fast once you get the hang of it.

[JCT]

Done a few really big jobs 400m2. I ping 2 lines down the middle 3 tiles apart and tile right down between lines. Use a straight edge to make sure tiles are square off the lines (ie they are at right angles to the chalk lines). Once I've done that its just a matter of pinging another line to the side of the set tiles and tiling that section. Repeat this as I finish each section. I prefer to use spacers also

[Dave]

No spacers here on floors......All by rack of eye after setting out and lines...

[Alan.P]

Think of rope as a 20m long spacer. You need the kind that is not particularly stretchable and uniform in thickness.

Soak it in water and then squeese the water out. That makes it easy to clean.

The principle is similar on floors as on the picture. You don't have to use battens on floors though, for obvious reasons. Takes a bit getting used to, but it's damn fast once you get the hang of it.

I've used this method, on the horizontals only, eye in the verticals, checking every now and then, my Brother and his ex business partner showed me it. Also, the pair of them use 'the hanging method' they don't use batons, spacers, lines or anything, ping a couple of lines, slap the tile on, wiggle to set and that's it, hanging. Try as I might takes me ages, quicker for me to use spacers.

[sWe]

I've used this method, on the horizontals only, eye in the verticals, checking every now and then, my Brother and his ex business partner showed me it. Also, the pair of them use 'the hanging method' they don't use batons, spacers, lines or anything, ping a couple of lines, slap the tile on, wiggle to set and that's it, hanging. Try as I might takes me ages, quicker for me to use spacers.

I normally don't use spacers, unless the job involves heavy tiles on walls, but that's not too often atm. Walls = hanging tiles for me. Really fast ones your hand eye coordination catches up.

[Alan.P]

I normally don't use spacers, unless the job involves heavy tiles on walls, but that's not too often atm. Walls = hanging tiles for me. Really fast ones your hand eye coordination catches up.

Mmmm, is hanging a Swedish thing ? my Brothers ex partner spent a lot of time there tiling.

[mikethetile]

i ping lines and tile to them, from time to time i check joints are still evenly spaced and true

never used the rope method , is it a quicker way of keeping a consistant grout line and how does it deal with the variation in tile size

[Jimmy]

Never thought of using a chalk line before on tiles ? Always used squares or straight edges but makes so much sense . I have spent all this morning putting down all cuts ( 600x 250 gres(poor "proper babba" porcelain) swirl patern silver/bronze flip flop handed pattern but only £60 p sq metre and ironicly 3 weeks waiting list + BLINGTASTIC) to get 4 rows in and find previous tiler was well out 40MM + over 3 metres , tiles have to marry to 3 edges already laid.The tiles are a centre piece in a new resterant and are a nice portfolio peice . So after a lot of dry laying I am bang on . Can't beat a bit of planing? That rope would have come in handy about 12.20 today!

SOZ 4 essay JIM

[rob]

Great info guys, gives me a few new ways to try. Thanks

[sWe]

Mmmm, is hanging a Swedish thing ? my Brothers ex partner spent a lot of time there tiling.

It's unusal for Swedish tilers to use spacers. The absolute majority of the time, tiles are "hung". When the tiles are too heavy, battens and rope are generally used.

i ping lines and tile to them, from time to time i check joints are still evenly spaced and true

never used the rope method , is it a quicker way of keeping a consistant grout line and how does it deal with the variation in tile size

It's easier to compensate for differing tile-sizes using rope than it is using spacers, because the rope can be compressed without affecting other tiles noticably. Rope is especially useful when tiling very large vertical surfaces. Batten, fix the first row, place a length of rope on top of that row, and then slap up every other tile, and then go back and fill in the gaps. The best example of this I can think of, is when I tiled a series of large walls in a bathhouse in 2007. The total meterage was over 100sqm, and the biggest section was about 9 metres high. Used several thousand tiles, which measured 125x125*20mm, with 10mm grout lines. Each tile weighed something like 1,5kg, and slipped continuosly in the adhesive I had been supplied with, when unsupported. I battened the entire length, and on the biggest segment, which was about 5m wide and about 9 metres high at the highest point, I was able to fix about one row every four or so minutes. One row was about two boxes, and each box held 20 tiles.

It's still important to choose a good adhesive with good slump resistance and a setting time suited to your working pace.
This was the main problem for me on that job, because I could only do about 10 rows before having to leave everything to set for an hour or so, because if I did more the weight of the tiles started to compress the rope furthest down a mm or two. I had complained to the customer that the adhesive had too long open time and too little slump resistance before I started, but they wouldn't listen. They ended up paying for it though, as it took more than twice as long to fix the tiles, given that I couldn't do more than ten rows before being forced to downtime. They complained alot, but as I said to them, I can't do magic.

Overall, it's a good method for large areas and/or heavy tiles, and it's really fast when fixing tiles in bulk, but it's still a bad idea to skrimp on materials.

[lucius]

Sorry Swe thought you were joking when you said you used rope, sounds an interesting method to me never heard of it i wonder if their is a Vid on You Tube or somewhere showing it being done.
Lucius.

[rob]

sounds an interesting method to me never heard of it i wonder if their is a Vid on You Tube or somewhere showing it being done.
Lucius.

If any body finds one I would like to see it too. Or if anyone has some photos they can post?

[Alan.P]

I did a couple of searches on youtube for it, not a thing, basically, once you have your addy bed on the wall and your first row set, you then lay the string lightly into the addy along the length of your run, fix the next row down onto the string lightly and repeat the string stage etc etc, when your tiles are fixed pull out the string, one draw back, watch what your using, you don't want the old 'hairy' type as that leave strands behind that can be a pain to remove.

[pjc]

on large floors with large tiles with 2 mm joints on rectified tiles on bad floors i couldn't see it could be done without spacers I use model making matches the tiles would move all over the place on smaller tiles or bigger joints i would grid it with chalk lines :Pete