Fixing bodged floor tiling

[mgillespie]

Had a "professional" tiler do the floor in the conservatory, after a few months the tiles started lifting, because I think he used the wrong grout/adhesive for the underfloor heating (of which he knew about).

Anyway this has clearly put me off using "professionals", so tackling the problem myself (the tiler has washed his hands of the problem now he has been paid of course).

I have picked up some unibond "Advanced All Purpose" floor tile adhesive, along with some Unibond "tile on floors flexi-mix additive", and some "ultra flexjoint grout".

I have all the loose tiles taken up, cleaned off all the grout and cleaned the grout out the floor I am patching. However there is loads of glue still down there, on the screeded floor. Does this all need to come up too?

Photo:

[davy583]

the surface should be as good as you can get it so i would try to get as much of the old stuff up as possible. i have not had much to do with UFH before so it could be the wrong addy but i think this can some times happen if the UFH as been turned on before the addy has fully gone off.

good look getting it put right mate

[Fred]

Sorry to hear you problem. To get the tiles to sit flush again, you really need to get up the old adhesive, but you need to do this carefully as not to pull up the screed holding your under floor heating. Question? Is it matted UFH or did a plumber put in pipe system UFH? I ask because there are various tools you can use to get up the adhesive, like a floor scraper to a hammer drill with a removing tool attached-the latter can cut up the screed if you are not careful.

I wouldn't use the unibond adhesive myself, I would go to a good tile shop and get a flexible make such as Mapei , Bal, Ardex etc.

[mgillespie]

It's piped UFH of the central heating. put it in myself :-) with concrete screed (with fibres in), and then the tiles and adhesive on that.

I was kinda hoping that I could get a very thin "skim" of adhesive so they glued but did not raise any higher than the surrounding tiles.

Is that possible, or am I living in a dream world

[CDS]

Sorry to hear you've had problems, no one likes to hear of a pro doing a bad job... and then washing their hands! Personally I'd take the Unibond stuff back - Its the tilers equivelent of using sellotape! You'll need to get as much of the existing adhesive up as possible or you're going to struggle getting a decent base of new adhesive down to allow you to get new tiles flush.

Worth trying a local tile shop such as topps. If you expain the situation they may give you a discount on adhesive. Probably after Bal rapidset flex or fast flex - or simalar, but it needs to be a cement based adhesive.

[Aztectiler]

1. You must remove the old adhesive as it didnt stick the first time it is likley to react with the adhesive that you use.

2. Take the Unibond back as it is pure rubbish and try to get hold of some Mapei flexible adhesive as I use this all the time over UFH and have never had a problem. Whatever adhesive that you use you MUST make sure that it is a flexible one as the expansion and contraction that is caused with your UFH will be minimised with a flexible adhesive. Also use a flexible grout fit for the job.

I often use a tool from Bosch that is the same as the Fein to remove dried adhesive, good tool and easy to use. Above all use a flexi addy and grout and remove the old addy it will be difficult but will be worthwhile.

[mgillespie]

I spend the best part of the day trying to get than **%%£& adhesive up. Blistered hands the lot.. It stuck very nicely to the screed, just not to the tile

20% of it scraped off... Discovered that the claw of my claw scraping along gets lots of it off, however the bit where there no no ridges, it's a right PITA.

Thanks for all the advice. I'm drop the Unibond back to B&Q and get one of the ones recommended here.

Any other tips for getting the dried adhesive up, without disturbing the clearly fragile bonded surrounding tiles? they are fixed, but I doubt it would take much to move them

[davy583]

try an angle grinder mate with the correct disc but be very carefull next to the tiles that are still down. if you touch the tile with the grinding wheel the tile will chip. good luck

[curlycan]

Hi I've just taken my tiles off the bathroom walls and to remove the addy I used an old wide wood chisel and hammer the smoothed with a sander with a 40 grit paper done wonders,know back to plaster.

[mgillespie]

try an angle grinder mate with the correct disc but be very carefull next to the tiles that are still down. if you touch the tile with the grinding wheel the tile will chip. good luck

tried that, the missus went mad with the amount of dust and crap it kicked up.

[GirlRacerRed]

tried that, the missus went mad with the amount of dust and crap it kicked up.

no offence mate, but if the missus wants the job doing properly this time, you might have to make quite a mess. especially if the adhesive is nicely stuck to the floor and not the tiles

just make sure you cover everything that can't be moved and do a tip-top clean up job when you've finished removing all the dried adhesive.

and then let her bring you for being the best workman ever

[Dave]

How soon dod you turn the heating on after tiling..?

What method did you use when turning the heating on...

Is there expansion joints around the perimeter of the room..?

Are the tiles porcelain bodied..?

[CJ]

no offence mate, but if the missus wants the job doing properly this time, you might have to make quite a mess. especially if the adhesive is nicely stuck to the floor and not the tiles

just make sure you cover everything that can't be moved and do a tip-top clean up job when you've finished removing all the dried adhesive.

and then let her bring you for being the best workman ever

Since when did common sense make any difference to women.

They want the job done with NO mess and in 5 minutes.

[GirlRacerRed]

Since when did common sense make any difference to women.

They want the job done with NO mess and in 5 minutes.

that reminds me CJ, how did you get on with that 8ft by 8ft hole you created?

[mgillespie]

How soon dod you turn the heating on after tiling..?

What method did you use when turning the heating on...

Is there expansion joints around the perimeter of the room..?

Are the tiles porcelain bodied..?

The heating was turned on about 6 months after it was laid (had a whole Summer last year of not needing it).

Well there is a grouted edge on the tiles, and when I laid the screed I put the foam edging strip around (~15mm thick), so the screed bed certainly has an expansion gap, however there is no gap per-se around the tilerd floor, only the grouting gaps.

How can I tell if they are porcelain? I seem to recall they might be, as the colour is the same all the way through the tile, I recall the tile seller showing me the difference, and mentioning the grading system for porcelain, and that they were grade 4.

[kilty55]

how long were tiles down for before you turned on the underfloor heating?

[mgillespie]

how long were tiles down for before you turned on the underfloor heating?

6 months ish.

[trevortine]

looks to me like the addy has been left open to long and has formed skin, you can clearly see all the combed ribs, i use a small kango with wide blade to remove old addy from concrete but it does carry the risk of loosening other tiles if they aint fixed proper. Bal all the way!!!

[jay]

dave you hit the nail on the head two more questions how big is the area length width and did the tiles peak up from the floor as much glue as you can get off is good try a window paint scraper( like a stanly blade only longer ) perimater exp with heating a must

[honza1]

I also noticed some ceramic tiles are sometimes full of dust from factory and if you do not wipe them off they might not stick to the adhesive and come off aventualy.Especialy if adhesive is open longand starting to make skin.
This is easy to over look.
However you have god bad luck with that - hope you can fix it well - may be you should concider pro again.

[Gazzatile]

If they are the same colour all through the tile they will be porcelain this could mean wrong adhesive used but should have been using a flexi on UFH but who knows if it sticks to the floor adhesive will not be at fault as no one has made a 1 sided adhesive yet or have they

[mgillespie]

Can't find anyone locally that sells any of the mentioned adhesives.

All I have found is "Palace TradeFlex". Will this do the job?

[Jezclayton]

You say you used professionals and yet the job has gone pearshaped and they don't want to know. You then slate professionals as a whole and come asking the same professionals for advice as to how you get out of your hole? Respect for the professional manner in which most contributors have responded.

If you're sure you really didn't turn the underfloor heating on to encourage rapid drying out, it has to be a case that the wrong adhesive/grout has been used. Either way, there is one solution only. Take the whole lot up and start again.

[BDS]

I must be missing something here but i cant see where he`s slating proffesionals,just states that the job was done by them and that now its gone wrong they`ve walked washing there hands of the whole situation.so for that they are not proffesional cause at the very least they could of come back taken a look to see whats gone wrong see who`s to blame etc etc or worked something out to put the problem right.but we are here to help anyone who needs it regardless.personally if it was me i`d take the lot up and redo it all for the simple fact that whats to say your gona do all this repair then regrout then so many months down the line have to do another part of the floor and so on and so on,so best to redo the lot now than mess about later but thats just my oppinion

[mgillespie]

I wasn't suggesting all professionals are like this bodger, as clearly they are not, however there ARE some that are, and right now I am not prepared to risk getting another one in to do a similar shoddy job, I feel given the correct advice here by reputable pros, I can make a sufficient repair.

I'm naive to think that this will be the last of the problems, but the ones I have taken up are the worst of it, if I have to do some more later down the line, then so be it, but where they have come up at the moment are the main thoroughfare, and from what I can tell the grouting is still good elsewhere, indicating there arn't any other immediate problems...

[Jezclayton]

My point is that you keep referring to your installer as a professional when he was clearly anything but. He appears to have been a bodger.

I could walk down the high street and find any number of individuals who claim to be professional tilers, plumbers, roofers etc. How did you find him and did you get references?

[Colour Republic]

I'm naive to think that this will be the last of the problems, but the ones I have taken up are the worst of it, if I have to do some more later down the line, then so be it, but where they have come up at the moment are the main thoroughfare, and from what I can tell the grouting is still good elsewhere, indicating there arn't any other immediate problems...

How did you decide on which tiles should come up mate? Was it because the grout had cracked? Did you just take up the ones that came up very easily?

Seeing as you've come this far, tap each tile in turn and if any of them sound hollow (the sound a stud wall might make) then pull these up as well, if you going to take the trouble to sort out the main thoroughfare then you might as well sort out the rest. A sitch in time... and all that!

Good luck, I'm sorry someone has let you down