Tiles not fit for purpose

[janichblue]

Hi - I went to a major tile retailer (TT) and told them, among other things, what I was looking for as follows:
I wanted a 'set' of different size tiles to form a pattern (flexible on pattern) - I did not want my tiler to need to cut tiles becasue I knew the edges would be different if once you cut them - I wanted all the same batch no so no shade differences.

these were the main points. Now, firstly, although ALL boxes were checked on collection as being the same batch numbers two of the sizes have 'completely' darker shades to the others. This was not noticed by my tiler because he wasn't looking for it. The three sizes that make the 'set' have been cut to size from a bigger tile so although they have tried to smooth the edges they are different. Finally, without other things I could go on about, When I lay out a row of different size tiles some have a space between them and some do not, they are obviously different sizes and not cut correctly.

Situ now: Area Manager offered me new tiles at a 'discount' but nothing for my underfloor heating that had to come up and nothing for the cost of laying them and lifting them again.

I have proof of all aspects described, photos, receipts etc and I think TT are relying on the fact that they say I should not have had them laid. Any advice please?

[Dan]

Topps are right in some sense. It's really down to the tiler to ensure all the tiles are fit for the job, as you're not to know. You could have checked them yourself, but obviously you'd rely on Topps Tiles, the UK's largest tile and wood flooring specialist to give you tiles of the same batch. Though the tiler would have known any tile store can get the batches mixed up, often it's a small code on the side of the box.

Unfortunately it's down to the tiler at the end of the day to make sure he's mixing up the tiles well (even of the same batch, usually by working from a few of the boxes at any one time, rather than working from one box, then another, then another sort of thing) and to make sure before he starts (or picks them up even, if he/she did).

I've heard of this situation a few times and the Area manager is doing the right thing in sorting you out a bit of a discount, but he can't cover the cost of the heating and re-fixing as that's not their fault.

You may find, depending on how long the tiles have been fitted, that most of the adhesive can be shaken (lightly) or brushed off the heating mat, and although it might not look as pretty as a new heating kit it it will still work (you can check the continuity of the system before you re-fit it to make sure it's in tact). And you may need to use a flexible self-levelling compound over the heating system to counter-balance any bits of adhesive still on it that could be sticking up a bit. If that makes sense. It's not the best job for the tiler to do but it might get him out of 'the mess' he's in at the moment.

If he can do that, and the shop can get you tiles, SLC, and adhesive at trade or a really good discount, you may find the re-fitting doesn't cost somebody as much as you first thought, or at least the first purchase of everything. Though the tiler has some work to do either way.

The other thing you could suggest is claiming off the tilers liability insurance though he wont really want to do that and not all types of insurance will cover the tiler for mistakes. You might have to look into that if that's the case.

Hope you get it sorted though and please do keep us posted.

[janichblue]

Hi Dan, thanks for the reply. The point I perhaps never made clear is that there 'were' all boxes with exactly the same batch number! Surely, if the batch number's are the same then that's the store's problem. I would think it's reasonable to assume (considering they told me to pick them up in one lot to enure batch/colour conformity) that if the batch numbers match then the shades must match. The store has acknowledged that the batch numbers matched when they gave them to me.

Tiles already lifted and heating broke up!

[kilty55]

some tiles differ in size although i would say the shop should be making you aware and the tiler should ask as well especially in slate was it slate you laid?

[Dave]

You can have same batch/manufacture dates but different colour shades...some times printed as "Tono"...you should check the shades and not the batch...

And as dan mentioned mix and shuffle tiles from different cartons...Some makes of tiles do have shading and that is acceptable and you have to blend them...

[Dan]

If everything on the boxes are all exactly the same then I'd be really annoyed if topps didn't fix the job fully for me. Though I still think it's down to the tiler to check them.

The thing you could say is when unfixed they look the same, if they do. Therefore only when fitted and the adhesive has dried has it come apparent that they're different shades. You'd only be able to say that if as Dave says the Tone AND Batch of all the tiles are matching though.

If you can go in the store and pick one of each tiles out again and they do look EXACTLY the same - then you have a leg to stand on with that one. If they do NOT look EXACTLY the same - then it's the tiler at fault (I hate saying that but I was told to check when I was tiling, and did. And when I got it wrong I DID have to fork out) for either not working from a few boxes of each size at a time, or for fitting them all when it's really obvious they're different shades.

You're certainly not to blame one would assume though so you shouldn't really have to loose out on your floor, heating or cash.

That's just my opinion, and I am just me.

[janichblue]

Hi all - thanks for info. I just spent 15 or so minutes doing a reply, went to post it and the site lost it! In line with my luck at moment...cheers

[janichblue]

Right, will try again. Seems like the retailer cannot go wrong. I went to him for advice and was informed 'providing I buy them in one lot they will all be the same batch no and same shade'.

funny how they didn't mention I should still check them. I gave them to the tiler, not a professional but good, and didn't ask him to check them as I told him they're all the same. I do realise the value of using a pro tiler but couldn't get one on the dates I needed one. The guy I used was already working on my house and has done a lot of tiling so no problems with the actual laying of them.

They are not slate tiles and even though I accept tiles may be of 'slighty' differing sizes the spaces should be able to look similar when laid.

They were sold to me as a 'set' and they are clearly not a set.

[Oli]

Maybe this is something you could take up with the manufacturer, I would have expected the store to check the batch codes etc on the packaging, but wouldnt expect them to be opening boxes and comparing tiles, if they gave you matching batches of tiles, but the colour varies then maybe they were packaged incorrectly at source.

The buck stops with the tiler IMO in this case.

[gonk31]

just out of interst what tiles where they,

[janichblue]

Hi Gonk

Padova 80

4 sizes - 45 x 30, 30x30, 15x30 and 15x15

[janichblue]

Hi Gonk - I'm waiting for your reply with interest!