Rising water marks on tiles around shower - normal? (pics) - TilersForums.co.uk | Tile Forums

FiscoKing · 02-07-2007

Hi,

New to the forum. Just started using my walk in shower.

The shower area (wall) is tiled with ceramic wall tiles.

Tiles are held onto the wall with ToppsTiles ceramic tile wall adhesive (Toppfix - the tiler said this stuff was the dogs).

Grout is BAL White.

I waited 4 weeks for the grout to set before turning the shower on.

I've noticed that after 30 mins use, there are now water marks on the tiles. By this I mean the colour of the wall tiles are changing around the corners and from the bottom up where the all meets the floor (like rising damp).

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h316/goodproducts101/Dsc00256.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h316/goodproducts101/Dsc00257.jpg

The tiles looked this way after the tiler had applied the grout, but the tiles dried out after about 4-5 days.

It looks to me as if the tiles are soaking up water from the edges???
Is this normal?

Will there be any problems in the future because of this?

Thanks.

**grumpygrouter** · 02-07-2007

Fairly new to the game myself, but I would be a little concerned if that was my shower! Doesn't look as though the wall to floor join has been siliconed to me in your picture, though it is not easy to tell in the photo.

Hopefully some of the more experienced guys may be able to re-assure you.

**Dave** · 02-07-2007

the water looks to be soaking in through the joints and then wetting the body of the tile , possibly even the substrate, did the tiler use a modified ( flexible ) grout..

**Varley** · 02-07-2007

Also, not that this would effect the tiles of course, but if the water is getting through that much, I hope the area was tanked, or them walls could be a mess.

**GazTech** · 02-07-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by FiscoKing

Hi,

New to the forum. Just started using my walk in shower.

The shower area (wall) is tiled with ceramic wall tiles.

Tiles are held onto the wall with ToppsTiles ceramic tile wall adhesive (Toppfix - the tiler said this stuff was the dogs).

Grout is BAL White.

I waited 4 weeks for the grout to set before turning the shower on.

I've noticed that after 30 mins use, there are now water marks on the tiles. By this I mean the colour of the wall tiles are changing around the corners and from the bottom up where the all meets the floor (like rising damp).

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h316/goodproducts101/Dsc00256.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h316/goodproducts101/Dsc00257.jpg

The tiles looked this way after the tiler had applied the grout, but the tiles dried out after about 4-5 days.

It looks to me as if the tiles are soaking up water from the edges???
Is this normal?

Will there be any problems in the future because of this?

Thanks.

Toppfix adhesive is not suitable for showers,although the water is getting in to the edge of the tiles causing the look,are their little hairline cracks in the grout where the water can track in?

FiscoKing · 02-07-2007

dhceramics:
He used BAL Microflex Wall Grout White. Just added water.
I dont think the wall is flexing though. I did the stud work. 30cm between centers.

Varley:
Yes. The tiles went onto wediboard. I used the genuine wedi tape and sealed the whole lot off with ardex adhesives.

Gaz @ Topps:
No hairline cracks in any of the tiles. The tiler went through a lot of tiles, discarding many that had imperfections. These I took back to B&Q.

I did question the use of non waterproof tile adhesive for the wetarea, but he told be he'd done swimming pools with the stuff (&BAL white) and had no problems. So I took his word.

Even though ToppFix is not waterproof, the wedi board is. When TopFix gets wet, will it loose it's adhesion and cause the tile to fall off the wall?

It could be that the grout is not flush enough with the top of the tile and therefore the water is getting in below the glazing?

Could someone take a look at this photo of the edge of a spare tile I have and tell me if the glazing on the side is normal? It looks a bit on the shallow side to me, but I've not seen many tiles.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...1/DSC00259.jpg

If the grout has not gone deep enough, then I'll call the tiler back to finish the job.

Can grout be applied to the top of existing grout? or will he have to remove the shallow grout first? Difficult job?

Thanks.

**Varley** · 02-07-2007

He will have to remove the grout at least 3mm down or the new grout won't take, if that is the problem of course.

That picture of the tile looks fine to me mate, ceramics are normally only glazed on top and a little over the sides.

**GazTech** · 02-07-2007

Sorry but yes when the Toppfix gets wet it will de-bond and the tiles with do a lemming,my advice is get them off before your shower tray takes damage from one coming off.recommended adhesive Bal white star and superflex wall grout .You may only need to do the bottom section where the water is directly hitting tiles plus one more row up for luck hope this helps

FiscoKing · 02-07-2007

Ah well.

Anyone want to give me odds on getting the tiler back?

So to do the job properly:

1) remove the tiles
2) scrape off the excess tile adhesive.
3) Re-apply the (new) tiles using a waterproof tile adhesive and waterproof grout.

Will I need new tiles?

Making sure of course that the grout at least covers the glazing this time....

Well that makes sense to me, but here's the problem. I have a feeling that when (if) the tiler comes back, he's going to blame the tiles, and then tell me what he said the first time round, that the grout and adhesive he's used is fine in his opinion, and he's been round for decades doing it this way, and he knew god when god was a lad etc.....

Who am I as a lay person to question him.

I will at least give it a try.

My only concern is that when the tiles are removed, they take the wedi tape with them which will break the seal. Will talk to wedi tomorrow.

Thanks.

FiscoKing · 03-07-2007

Spoke to Topps tiles today. Managed to get hold of someone that is involved in some way with their quality assurance for the products that they sell. He said they would not recommend toppfix for the shower area either, but said this was more to do with the size of the tile (15 x 10 inch) than the application.

Spoke to BAL who said the microflex was ok for a residential shower area.

Spoke to Palace chemicals who make Toppfix for topps tiles. He would not comment on what happens to toppfix when it gets wet, and told me to regrout.

Spoke to Wedi, who said you should use a waterproof tile adhesive and waterproof grout with their product. When you take a tile off wediboard, the board has to be replaced. Wediboard is designed to last as long as the tile on it. When you pry the tile off, the cement backing comes off the board, leaving the hard foam inner. Tile adhesive will not stick to the foam, so you have to replace the board.

The guy at topps was quite helpful. He said all large ceramic tiles (B&Q quality) are not identical in size and will have a slight bend to them because of the firing process. When you arrange the tiles in a brick pattern, you get the edge of one tile kicking out compared to the tile below because its ending at the middle of the tile. If memory serves, I think my tiler said something to the same effect. Because of this, you'll get exposed unglazed portions of tile showing, and this is where the water can get in.

If I have to remove the tiles, the bathroom is a write-off. The wediboard IS the bathroom, all custom cut and custom sealed.

I wish the tiler had explained some of this before he started

. It's always down to the guys on the forums to explain how the job should be done properly.

The only option I have is to re-grout making sure that the (waterproof) grout covers the glaze on the tiles.

Incidentally, all of the people I called above, ended up signing off by saying "And good luck"...

It's not just a bathroom, it's an f*ing adventure.

**Fekin** · 03-07-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by FiscoKing

It's not just a bathroom, it's an f*ing adventure.

lol, I am sorry about your bathroom, but that bit was funny

**Dan** · 03-07-2007

A quick-fix to this would be to use epoxy grout around the shower area and catch those edges with it that are showing too.

Epoxy grout is water proof and not water resistant, like a cement based grout and even a flexi-grout... Although a flexi would usually have a lower water absorption rate than standard, I think an epoxy would stop water getting through the grout fully around the shower area.

If the toppfix isn't water resistant it will break down when it gets wet therefor not taking the surface off the Wedi. Just rake the grout out around the bottom few tiles and then wet what you can in the grout joints till the tile comes free.

Re-fix using a decent adhesive and then grout using a decent grout, maybe still epoxy.