Setting Out Setting out a large floor

[klunk]

Hi all,

I have done quite a few bathrooms and kitchens etc, But im due to do a 40m2 floor that runs from a utility room through a kitchen and into a consevatory,

Are there any tips for laying out a large floor through 3 rooms?

they not otaly sure on tiles yet but proberly going to be large format ones

cheers

[oldgit]

firstly look for the best site line ie:kitchen units,or a long wall this should keep the job square but you must double check this.
i also try to get the best set out but also work the doorways so that the edges of your tiles are within the door way threshold,this gives you around 6" to play with,you can then avoid potentially impossible cuts around door ways.

[Leatherface]

I am probably going to struggle to explain this on a diagram
In theory, if you had 20 rooms adjoining each other, it would be possible to know the exact size of cut at any given point.
You need to first centre your main focal point room and get your first line down.
Then a set of straight edges and a Rubi square come in handy.
The red lines on the diagram are lines that have been marked and squared off into each room, using straight edges and rubi square.
When you decide your initial set out using a tile staff, you will then be able to use the squared off lines ( red ) to transfer your tile positions into any room. Then adjust accordingly.
This sounds long winded, but when you get the hang of it, it is easy.
Did a job 3 years ago, there were 2 hallways, a utility, a kitchen, a dining room, a sitting room, an entrance vestibule, a reception room and 2 cupboards. 170 SQ M in all - to be fully tiled in porcelain 30 cm x 30 cm
I spent a day setting out this method. Carefully adjusted for best fit, using main ent lobby as my focal point. I did not have one single sliver cut, and managed to confine my smaller cuts to less important rooms.
P.S - I have gone mad with the red lines, just to demonstrate you can square off to any point on the floor

Also bear in mind that the diagram shows rooms that are essentially square apart from one on RHS. This method is good if you have adjoining rooms that are out of square, as you can check at any point to find out the size of your raked cuts

[garythetiler]

I am probably going to struggle to explain this on a diagram
In theory, if you had 20 rooms adjoining each other, it would be possible to know the exact size of cut at any given point.
You need to first centre your main focal point room and get your first line down.
Then a set of straight edges and a Rubi square come in handy.
The red lines on the diagram are lines that have been marked and squared off into each room, using straight edges and rubi square.
When you decide your initial set out using a tile staff, you will then be able to use the squared off lines ( red ) to transfer your tile positions into any room. Then adjust accordingly.
This sounds long winded, but when you get the hang of it, it is easy.
Did a job 3 years ago, there were 2 hallways, a utility, a kitchen, a dining room, a sitting room, an entrance vestibule, a reception room and 2 cupboards. 170 SQ M in all - to be fully tiled in porcelain 30 cm x 30 cm
I spent a day setting out this method. Carefully adjusted for best fit, using main ent lobby as my focal point. I did not have one single sliver cut, and managed to confine my smaller cuts to less important rooms.
P.S - I have gone mad with the red lines, just to demonstrate you can square off to any point on the floor

Also bear in mind that the diagram shows rooms that are essentially square apart from one on RHS. This method is good if you have adjoining rooms that are out of square, as you can check at any point to find out the size of your raked cuts

why dont you 3,4,5 and bay out with chalklines nick ?

[Leatherface]

345 and chalk lines is how I would set out my main room, but find more accurate to use square and straight edges into adjoining rooms.
Just the way I have been taught.
Chalk line is never going to be as accurate

[Fred]

I am probably going to struggle to explain this on a diagram
In theory, if you had 20 rooms adjoining each other, it would be possible to know the exact size of cut at any given point.
You need to first centre your main focal point room and get your first line down.
Then a set of straight edges and a Rubi square come in handy.
The red lines on the diagram are lines that have been marked and squared off into each room, using straight edges and rubi square.
When you decide your initial set out using a tile staff, you will then be able to use the squared off lines ( red ) to transfer your tile positions into any room. Then adjust accordingly.
This sounds long winded, but when you get the hang of it, it is easy.
Did a job 3 years ago, there were 2 hallways, a utility, a kitchen, a dining room, a sitting room, an entrance vestibule, a reception room and 2 cupboards. 170 SQ M in all - to be fully tiled in porcelain 30 cm x 30 cm
I spent a day setting out this method. Carefully adjusted for best fit, using main ent lobby as my focal point. I did not have one single sliver cut, and managed to confine my smaller cuts to less important rooms.
P.S - I have gone mad with the red lines, just to demonstrate you can square off to any point on the floor

Also bear in mind that the diagram shows rooms that are essentially square apart from one on RHS. This method is good if you have adjoining rooms that are out of square, as you can check at any point to find out the size of your raked cuts

Good post mate.............

[Leatherface]

You cannot 345 each room individually as you cannot guarantee that each line will meet the next at right angles.
If they don't, then you cannot know the exact size of each cut
Also pinging a chalk line into each room is not guaranteed to be at right angles either

[garythetiler]

345 and chalk lines is how I would set out my main room, but find more accurate to use square and straight edges into adjoining rooms.
Just the way I have been taught.
Chalk line is never going to be as accurate

sorry nick but pythagoras is always going to be better and if you bay out you can start in any area and still line up, using a square and a stright edge is fine on small floors but on a large area and going into multiple rooms you would be asking for trouble also by baying out it deals with tile sizing issues

[gaz man]

totally agree with gary on this one

[Leatherface]

Point taken my method still works for me !
Guess Dan is wrong then as he showed me

[Dave]

Dan isn't a tiler nick ( as he will tell you.. )and setting out large area's is different to setting out small floors...

The 3'4'5 squaring and grid method is the simplest and quickest method going and used by many time served tilers...infact pete pjc swears by the grid method...


But if you are happy and your method works for you then thats great...no 2 tilers work the same as they say..

[oldgit]

KLUNK only wants to know about 2 big rooms and a utility and what did Pythagoras know he only had a theory

[Leatherface]

Suppose we stick to methods that we know and trust.
If one gets you the right result and you are happy with it, then no harm done.
better than guess work as some might do !

[Dan]

I'd have used a square mainly, had a big wooden one which was made using the 3,4,5 method. So sort of all right lol.

You could use either method to set the lines out and then the one you didn't use to double check it perhaps.

Which ever way you do it you just need to make sure you're double checking before and you can picture the floor tiled, before you get the adhesive out. Knowing where your cuts are, and what size they're about to be before you get the adhesive mixed will save you a few headaches.

As I always say though, I'm a web designer, I shouldn't have been teaching really, I was meant to be extra help but ended up doing all the practical side of things after only a year or so on the tools myself, and only then as a bit of a helper.

[redlee]

Dan isn't a tiler nick ( as he will tell you.. )and setting out large area's is different to setting out small floors...

The 3'4'5 squaring and grid method is the simplest and quickest method going and used by many time served tilers...infact pete pjc swears by the grid method...


But if you are happy and your method works for you then thats great...no 2 tilers work the same as they say..

Can someone explain this 345 method please.

[Leatherface]

I'd have used a square mainly, had a big wooden one which was made using the 3,4,5 method. So sort of all right lol.

You could use either method to set the lines out and then the one you didn't use to double check it perhaps.

Which ever way you do it you just need to make sure you're double checking before and you can picture the floor tiled, before you get the adhesive out. Knowing where your cuts are, and what size they're about to be before you get the adhesive mixed will save you a few headaches.

As I always say though, I'm a web designer, I shouldn't have been teaching really, I was meant to be extra help but ended up doing all the practical side of things after only a year or so on the tools myself, and only then as a bit of a helper.

Hope some of the guys who go on courses now, aren't being taught by Lollipop ladies, decorators and part time line dancers
A bit naughty really for a centre to allow a non qualified person to train people !
Nevertheless, I learned a lot

[NETT Darren]

Have you tried the lasers set at 90 degrees, much easier
Amazon.com: Stanley 77-188 S2 Laser Level Square: Home Improvement

Have a look at this one, costs about 40 quid

[doug boardley]

why dont you 3,4,5 and bay out with chalklines nick ?

or 5,12,13 down a corridor, clever bloke that Pythagoras, I used to use a square and struggled, then i put mine against another and it was out by at least 2 degrees, which is a lot over a long span

[doug boardley]

Hope some of the guys who go on courses now, aren't being taught by Lollipop ladies, decorators and part time line dancers
A bit naughty really for a centre to allow a non qualified person to train people !
Nevertheless, I learned a lot

does that mean nobody on TF should be giving advice then, apart from the guys from NETT and Chase?

[Daz]

Can someone explain this 345 method please.

Try this thread.....
http://www.tilersforums.co.uk/tiling...-triangle.html

[gaz man]

we could start getting really technical and start disecting angles

[doug boardley]

nah, it's all pretty simple as it is, no point in bringing sine, cosine, pi, tangents etc into quadrilateral geometry

[whitebeam]

[doug boardley]

well Marcus has been quiet for a while!!lol

[Dan]

Hope some of the guys who go on courses now, aren't being taught by Lollipop ladies, decorators and part time line dancers
A bit naughty really for a centre to allow a non qualified person to train people !
Nevertheless, I learned a lot

Very Naughty. I think their head practical guy now is a car salesman. Still, he's been blagging it for some time now so I guess he'll be good at it. He did a couple of jobs sporadically and was the mixer on those before eventually taking over the practical as I left. The owner was always in his suit and never got that dirty.

[garythetiler]

pythagoras genius mathematician who realised that the whole universe is based upon circles and formed a mathmatical formula to work out out how geometric shapes relate to each other, discovered that the combined angles of a triangle added up to a total of 180 degrees also gave a definitive number for pie which is vital for defininig the area of any circle and who without his theories we would not have any of the modern geometric maths which define all setting out in tiling and all acrhictectural diagrams since 600 years bc but leather face says HIS SQUARE AND STRAIGHT EDGE METHOD OF SETTING OUT IS SUPERIOR
nick you wouldnt have a rubi square if it wasnt for the pythagoram thereom
sorry mate stick to youtube son, for advice about setting out leave it to tilers who know what they are talking about
cheers Gary

[oogabooga]

Well if gridding was good enough for the ancient Egyptians, it'll do for me too

[Rob Z]

Nick, it's a good execise to prove it to yourself about the inaccuracies inherent in using squares and straightedges for lay out over large areas.....layout a large square or rectangle, as large as possbile, using just the squares and the straigthedges, and work the lines back to where you started. Then, measure the diagonals with a tape measure and see how close you can get to having the diagonals equal. Chances are very good that the diagonals won't be equal, although it will seem that your square and straightedges were right on the money. As Doug said, just a small bit out here and there will magnify to a sizable error on the whole layout.

The tape measure and geometry don't lie, though. You just have to know how to operate the smart end of the tape and give the dumb end to your helper.

[pjc]

You cannot 345 each room individually as you cannot guarantee that each line will meet the next at right angles.
If they don't, then you cannot know the exact size of each cut
Also pinging a chalk line into each room is not guaranteed to be at right angles either

Dont be daft lol

[pjc]

sorry nick but pythagoras is always going to be better and if you bay out you can start in any area and still line up, using a square and a stright edge is fine on small floors but on a large area and going into multiple rooms you would be asking for trouble also by baying out it deals with tile sizing issues

Yes Gary just finished a 1200mtr 600 x 600 floor 2 mm joints always have to work out the cuts on everything before i start it even when most things ain't built Pete lol i only use straight edges and squares for mixing the adhesive