Contract of works - what should I put

[lawrenso]

Hi Guys

You may remember my last thread on the bathroom bodge-up. Well we appear to have found some new tilers (Finesse of Chester) however, I want to draw up a contract of works so there can be no disagreement in expectations before, during or after.

We are having 600*300 laid landscape in a standard pattern (no brick bond) with two strips of mosaics running horizontally round the room - one high and one low (see pictures in the thread I mentioned above) and two different colours of the tiles - with the light running through the centre and the mosaics bordering the light.

So - what can I put in a contract. So far I have

1. The Tilers are resposible for checking the levels of the walls before the job commences.

2. All tiles are to be fixed using a full bed of cement in adherance to the BS?

3. Lippage of Tiles - What should I put for this??

4. Mosaics are to be flush to surface of tiles - no undulation, standing proud or sunk, and no twisted individual Mosaics.

5. Grouting - Grouting is to be either flush to the face of the tiles or no lower than the slight chamfer on the edge of the tiles. What size grout line would be best with these tiles??

6. Mosaics are to be laid so as to ensure a good watertightness around the Shower Bath.

7. Tile Beading around door - Fixed so as not to interfere with the door ironmongery (hinges, latch etc..).

8. Cement to be used - The cement is to be suitable for large format Porcelain tiles fixed on plasterboard

9. Grout to be used - The grout has got to have a high element of resistance to water, mould and staining.

10. An on site inspection of a recent comparable job,


Now what else should I put down - Sealing corners? straightness of tiles - looking to you guys to help me avoid another disaster and need to get this to them by next weekend.

Cheers

Steve

[Dave]

All tiling works should be to BS5385.......

[lawrenso]

Cheers Dave,

Hopefully I am going into this with everything down pat.

Cheers

Steve

[Leatherface]

Hi Lawrenso,
just a tip to cover yourself, check your mosaics in the boxes and make sure they have been webbed up correctly. From time to time ( depending upon where they have come from ) mosaics are supplied on the web badly twisted. Had one of these jobs recently.
As you are wanting a tip top job, you would be doing a dis service to your tiler in supplying him anything other than A1 mosaics, otherwise he may have to spend a dis proportionate amount of time cutting out individual mosaics and re positioning !!
If they are A1 then you will also be confident in flagging any problems with twisting once the tiles have been set.

You also mentioned plasterboard walls ? Cannot find thread, have you got a wet area to be tiled ? Is this to be tanked ?

[Fekin]

n

Hi Guys

You may remember my last thread on the bathroom bodge-up. Well we appear to have found some new tilers (Finesse of Chester) however, I want to draw up a contract of works so there can be no disagreement in expectations before, during or after.

We are having 600*300 laid landscape in a standard pattern (no brick bond) with two strips of mosaics running horizontally round the room - one high and one low (see pictures in the thread I mentioned above) and two different colours of the tiles - with the light running through the centre and the mosaics bordering the light.

So - what can I put in a contract. So far I have

1. The Tilers are resposible for checking the levels of the walls before the job commences.

2. All tiles are to be fixed using a full bed of cement in adherance to the BS?

3. Lippage of Tiles - What should I put for this??

4. Mosaics are to be flush to surface of tiles - no undulation, standing proud or sunk, and no twisted individual Mosaics.

5. Grouting - Grouting is to be either flush to the face of the tiles or no lower than the slight chamfer on the edge of the tiles. What size grout line would be best with these tiles??

6. Mosaics are to be laid so as to ensure a good watertightness around the Shower Bath.

7. Tile Beading around door - Fixed so as not to interfere with the door ironmongery (hinges, latch etc..).

8. Cement to be used - The cement is to be suitable for large format Porcelain tiles fixed on plasterboard

9. Grout to be used - The grout has got to have a high element of resistance to water, mould and staining.

10. An on site inspection of a recent comparable job,


Now what else should I put down - Sealing corners? straightness of tiles - looking to you guys to help me avoid another disaster and need to get this to them by next weekend.

Cheers

Steve

I know you have had a bad experiance with a previous tilers and are now wanting to cover yourself for the second attempt, but if a customer came at me with a contract of work like this I would honestly walk, as the type of customer that would draw up a contract like this "in my own personal view" would be the pickiest one out there and most probably refuse payment for the slightest tiny "none conforming to contract" bit going.

[Leatherface]

n

I know you have had a bad experiance with a previous tilers and are now wanting to cover yourself for the second attempt, but if a customer came at me with a contract of work like this I would honestly walk, as the type of customer that would draw up a contract like this "in my own personal view" would be the pickiest one out there and most probably refuse payment for the slightest tiny "none conforming to contract" bit going.

Was a bit unsure of saying as I did not want to sound negative, but I have to agree. Had one or two customers in the past who have appeared to be as you called it "picky" I declined to quote. This does not mean that I am in any way not confident in the quality of my work, but got the impression that they would go over the entire job with a microscope and find any excuse not to pay.
This happened to one of the tilers I worked with : His customer went around the bathroom after he had finished and measured all the grout lines to check that they were 2mm as specified

[Fekin]

The way I see it is anything anyone ever does be it tiling or anything else, will always be open to slight errors being found if the job is subject to enough scrutiny.

[whitebeam]

I've seen first class work but like Fekin says if you look close enough you will find something. It also depends on the quality of the materials your using as in tiles

[Leatherface]

Just another point : " tiler to check walls for level " ?
As a customer expecting a top class job, surely you should check and be responsible for ensuring that the walls are level prior to tiler commencing. You need to give the guy a fighting chance of doing that perfect job

[lawrenso]

Hi Guys,

Understand where you are coming from with your comments - but as you can see I have been stung once - twice shy as the saying goes. I have already spoken to the tilers about doing a contract of works and they are happy with this.

The reason I have posted this is get your guys help to come up with something that is realistic.

ie - the lippage - I am asking what percentage I would be looking at to be reasonable along with other items.

I just want something down in writing to make sure that both ourselves and the tilers are working towards the same thing with no ambiguity.

For example - saying the reason the tiles are spot fixed is because the walls are out - after the job is nearly finished. Mosaics that are going to be 1cm above the bath meaning we would of had 1cm of grout or sealant down to the unless there was going to be a 6mm tile cut!!

I am sure that something like this would be specified by architects. All I want is a level playing field with all expectations laid out at the beginning.

This is going to cost me in the region of £1500 - £2000 to get the room redone - on top of the £1500 it has cost to get to this point. Plus more than likely me working the next 2 or 3 weekends to get the tiles off the wall and the walls made good again. Time I should be spending with my family seeing as though I am away all week.

we are not picky - just want a good job done - not the possible lethal bodge up that we have now.

I hope you guys understand.

Steve

[whitebeam]

Did'nt realise that kind of money was involved, I can see where your coming from now and wish you had mentioned this in your first post it may given different replys to your situation

[Leatherface]

Hi Guys,

Understand where you are coming from with your comments - but as you can see I have been stung once - twice shy as the saying goes. I have already spoken to the tilers about doing a contract of works and they are happy with this.

The reason I have posted this is get your guys help to come up with something that is realistic.

ie - the lippage - I am asking what percentage I would be looking at to be reasonable along with other items.

I just want something down in writing to make sure that both ourselves and the tilers are working towards the same thing with no ambiguity.

For example - saying the reason the tiles are spot fixed is because the walls are out - after the job is nearly finished. Mosaics that are going to be 1cm above the bath meaning we would of had 1cm of grout or sealant down to the unless there was going to be a 6mm tile cut!!

I am sure that something like this would be specified by architects. All I want is a level playing field with all expectations laid out at the beginning.

This is going to cost me in the region of £1500 - £2000 to get the room redone - on top of the £1500 it has cost to get to this point. Plus more than likely me working the next 2 or 3 weekends to get the tiles off the wall and the walls made good again. Time I should be spending with my family seeing as though I am away all week.

we are not picky - just want a good job done - not the possible lethal bodge up that we have now.

I hope you guys understand.

Steve

Fair point mate
as long as you can come up with something that is agreeable to both parties, good luck

[lawrenso]

Just another point : " tiler to check walls for level " ?
As a customer expecting a top class job, surely you should check and be responsible for ensuring that the walls are level prior to tiler commencing. You need to give the guy a fighting chance of doing that perfect job

Hi Leatherface

I know the walls were level before the last tiler started - I done all the prep work! However, nothing was written down - agreed to etc...I need it confirming from them so that cannot be used as an excuse for poor tiling. This is about protecting the tiler as much as me. The tilers have already agreed to come in and do this as well before starting the job - it is just getting it down in writing.

By the way - the tiles are Young Stones from CTD

Steve

[Leatherface]

Hi Leatherface

I know the walls were level before the last tiler started - I done all the prep work! However, nothing was written down - agreed to etc...I need it confirming from them so that cannot be used as an excuse for poor tiling. This is about protecting the tiler as much as me. The tilers have already agreed to come in and do this as well before starting the job - it is just getting it down in writing.

By the way - the tiles are Young Stones from CTD

Steve

To be honest, I feel for you mate, you shouldn't be in this situation in the first place

[whitebeam]

Might sound a silly question but where are you from

[LM Ceramics]

if your new tiler has agreed to a written contract then there should be no problem i understand that youre taking pre cautions due previous experience but i have to agree if a client came to me with a written contract then id be inclined to walk away as it could be more hassel than its worth but i do understand the money you have pay out.

anyway good luck hopefully second time lucky

[tile55]

Hi Guys

You may remember my last thread on the bathroom bodge-up. Well we appear to have found some new tilers (Finesse of Chester) however, I want to draw up a contract of works so there can be no disagreement in expectations before, during or after.

We are having 600*300 laid landscape in a standard pattern (no brick bond) with two strips of mosaics running horizontally round the room - one high and one low (see pictures in the thread I mentioned above) and two different colours of the tiles - with the light running through the centre and the mosaics bordering the light.

So - what can I put in a contract. So far I have


3. Lippage of Tiles - What should I put for this??

4. Mosaics are to be flush to surface of tiles - no undulation, standing proud or sunk, and no twisted individual Mosaics.

5. Grouting - Grouting is to be either flush to the face of the tiles or no lower than the slight chamfer on the edge of the tiles. What size grout line would be best with these tiles??


10. An on site inspection of a recent comparable job,


Now what else should I put down - Sealing corners? straightness of tiles - looking to you guys to help me avoid another disaster and need to get this to them by next weekend.

Cheers

Steve

Good luck in getting the best job that you can, obviously you are paying a lot of money hopefully to get a fantastic result, so no one can blame you for being overly critical or demanding, in fact I would expect it. Your home, your job, your money.

Drawing up a contract shows you have the intent to inspect, criticize and demand the highest level of skill possible from your tiler and to me should be standard when tiling any area.
For all those guys advocating a governing body for the tiling industry I would of thought this would be a no brainer as it protects both the tiler and the client, and could be a legally binding contract between 2 parties.

:3 Personally I wouldn't mention the word lippage, if the tiles are tiled properly you wouldn't have any noticable lipage anywhere, and this should be a bare minimum for any tiling install.
Also No. 4 partly covers this and all you would need to do woud be to add that all tiles should be even and level.

:5 Are the tiles 'rectified' if so then maybe a 2mm grout line would suit, which would possibly be the same grout size as the mosaics.
When mixing mosaics with normal tiles Imo it is always best to have the same grout spacing throughout.

Again I wish you all the best and hope everything goes well for you.

This to me, is what makes this forum so special, although not a tiler you have posted quite a few times, asked for and received help and I'm sure that by doing so, you have helped other people aswel -live long and prosper my good man.

[lawrenso]

Might sound a silly question but where are you from

North Wales near Chester

[lawrenso]

if your new tiler has agreed to a written contract then there should be no problem i understand that youre taking pre cautions due previous experience but i have to agree if a client came to me with a written contract then id be inclined to walk away as it could be more hassel than its worth but i do understand the money you have pay out.

anyway good luck hopefully second time lucky

Hi LM,

I suppose what I am looking at really with this contract is confidence - it is all well and good somebody saying I can do that, but that is all it is - where as when it comes to agreeing to signing a contract - that should weadle out the ones that definately can't cut the mustard. In the end we only want to protect ourselves the best way we can.

Just had an argument with the original tiler while waiting to board the plane this morning - he denies spot-fixing the tiles now....

Still deciding what to to do there.

Thanks for all your support guys - great forum you have here.

Steve

[Dave]

Just another point : " tiler to check walls for level " ?
As a customer expecting a top class job, surely you should check and be responsible for ensuring that the walls are level prior to tiler commencing. You need to give the guy a fighting chance of doing that perfect job

It is not upto a customer to say whether the walls or suitable to tile...IMO.

How many times have you turned upto a job and the customer mentioned over the phone etc that the walls have been skimmed/prepped..

Then you turn up and they are nowhere near flat enough, so i think it is a tilers job to check a substrate is good enough for him/her to tile too.

I wouldn't take a customers word for it...




p.s. Good luck steve...Let me know how it goes...i wish i could have come and done it for you but not to be this tme....thanks for the offer though..it's just a shame you have had to undergo this upset.

[Fekin]

It is not upto a customer to say whether the walls or suitable to tile...IMO.

How many times have you turned upto a job and the customer mentioned over the phone etc that the walls have been skimmed/prepped..

Then you turn up and they are nowhere near flat enough, so i think it is a tilers job to check a substrate is good enough for him/her to tile too.

I wouldn't take a customers word for it.

Bang on

[theyomper]

Had a customer once having a Smallbones Bathroom fitted. He demanded a meeting with all those involved before the work started. His words....' I am paying you for a first class job, I am fussy, if anyone of you does not think that you are capable of the standard that I expect..........Please leave now'
He got a first class job and rewarded all the tradesman with a decent bonus.

So it pays to set the ground rules and more so if you have already been stung. i hope all goes well.