1st Job: leaky shower - help

[Mrs Tiler]

Hi everyone

I am new to tiling and am going to view a leaky shower today and can anyone give me any tips so that I can be fairly sure of diagnosing the problem? Apparently some tiles have fallen off, nothing new there - and its in a top floor flat and water is leaking into the flat below. I think i will be okay if i can see that the tiles were incorrectly put up or say, there's no tanking etc but its if its a plumbing problem I feel a bit shakey about working that out.

thanks

[mikethetile]

you didnt say wether the problem is continous leaking or intermitant, as in only when the shower is in use

you did say tiles had fallen off which does indicate its a waterproof problem rather than plumbing

i used to worry myself before seeing the job in case i couldnt diagnose the problem and would look foolish

but i neednt have worried as a carefull inspection usually highlights the problem.

if the seal around the tray breaks down water can find its way behind the shower and soak up the wall popping tiles off as well as running down through the floor

i would check that first

the same thing can happen if the grout gives up allowing water to seep behind tiles, i had a spate of that when people started upgrading to power showers

if your n ot sure take notes and come back on here as someone will have the answer

good luck and hope you get the job

[shieldsy101]

Had to check were you were from mrs tiler cause i too got a call today to come and look at a leaking shower. thought we might have bumped into each other!! Anyway i'm a bit apprehensive as well as what to look for but i'll def be takin notes and post on here if i'm unsure of anything as has been suggested.

Apparently it's 8 tiles that need chipped out and replacing any ideas on how long i should allow for this job cause never replaced tiles yet?

I told him it depends on what the pboard is like behind the tiles but he says it's fine!!! haha

[cornish_crofter]

One problem will certainly be a substrate to adhesive issue that the tiles are fixed to. This can be split into possibilities as follows:

Substrate:

You don't know what the tiles are stuck to at this stage. They should obviously be stuck to either tileboard or tanked plasterboard. When I do a shower I usually quote to replace the plasterboard in the area the shower will be with aquapanel or hardibacker. This does not break down on contact with water, unlike plasterboard. If bits of the plasterboard are stuck to the back of the tiles, then the plasterboard is shot and will need cutting out.

Priming:

Another possibility is that PVA has been used to prime the walls prior to tiling. This is a big mistake. The PVA goes partly live and then pops the tiles off together with the adhesive. If the Adhesive has come clean away from the walls but is still stuck to the tiles, take a good look at the walls and see if there is any PVA still on there, also see if the wall is slightly sticky.

Adhesive:

If the adhesive is soft or brittle, then it hasn't set properly.

Then you need to check the seal between the tray and the remaining tiles/wall. If the bottom row of tiles have come away then it is likely that water is finding its way between the tiles and the wall, or maybe even through the wall.

Whatever the actual failure mode is I think you should be thinking seriously of a complete retile and refit using the correct preparation and materials.

If the tiles were still held firm then I would be looking first at the seal, but as the tiles are coming off then this is indicative of a substandared installation.

[Mrs Tiler]

Many thanks to everyone who replied to me; and yes Mikethetile, I was frightened of making an idiot of myself but fortunately it was easy to detect the problem or should I say the problems with this shower. Frankly, it was a real botch job, I took photos and they should go in the hall of shame. The tiles had been tiled on to a layer of other tiles, (the one I looked at was even broken), with some adhesive that looked like it had simply been slapped on. the tiles which were fixed to what looked like breeze block - I could tell this because there were just big gaps between the tiles. I've told the customer it needs to be ripped out and a proper job done!

[brian c]

And you are not wrong there...thats just ripping people off doing a job like that...im sure you will sort it Mrs T

[Mrs Tiler]

I think it may have been a diy job rather than a dodgy workman

[brian c]

nevertheless,still shocking.

[Colour Republic]

Gladstone Terrace! I'm not surprised the shower is in such a state being in student ville. A lot properties up there are in a right state because landlords keep bodging it up

[mikethetile]

im pleased it went well for you

thats a good job to show people what your capable of, youve got the before photos for your portfolio and hopefully you will have the after too

good luck and hope you land this one

[Mrs Tiler]

well, the girl who lives there deserves better than what what she has and straight, so I reckon the urgency of it might get me the job - I did say I could do it over the weekend.

[Mrs Tiler]

well if its not fixed the ceiling might come down in the flat below!

[Colour Republic]

Any chance you could do it next week? and when that ceiling comes down pass my number onto the people below? Only joking, Good Luck!

[faithhealer]

What a pity tilers can't just go and hang a 'Condemned' notice on it. Do not use until you've employed a proper workman'!!

[Mrs Tiler]

[Mrs Tiler]

although I am new I feel fairly certain that this shower will always be in the top ten of bad jobs I have seen! But maybe there is worse out there????

[Mrs Tiler]

what do you do besides tiling? actually I have a ceiling at home that needs fixing, I might employ you. I'm based in Hove.

[Colour Republic]

although I am new I feel fairly certain that this shower will always be in the top ten of bad jobs I have seen! But maybe there is worse out there????

If you do a lot of work round the Lewes Road area you will see many many more of these!!! But in all fairness these sort of jobs aren't so common in the Brighton and Hove area anymore because during the housing boom many people modernised to capitalise on the sale price

[Colour Republic]

what do you do besides tiling? actually I have a ceiling at home that needs fixing, I might employ you. I'm based in Hove.

I'm a general builder, mainly do interior refurbs, kitchens, bathrooms, carpentry... in fact most trades. I'd be happy to take a look and at the very least offer you some advice is if it something that you may want to tackle yourself. I'm in Third Ave, so Hove 'actually' too

[alib103]

Student flats are all the same! I did one like that a few months ago, water was pouring into the flat below. Went round to have a look, and there was 3 layers of tiles in the shower enclosure and nearly a cm gap between tray and frist row of tiles, bodged up with silicone! Told the guy it would have to come off and would probably need hardibacker board or aquapanel put up. When i eventually got through the 3 layers of tiles the plasterboard had been stuck up with what seemed like "no more nails". i was amazed the entire wall hadn't fallen down. Took some hard graft to get all the tiles off, new aquapanel put up and tiles back on in a day but guy was really pleased and now has my number for future work......fingers crossed!

[Mrs Tiler]

I can only dream of being that quick! but so far its the 2 layers of tiles with lots of big gaps. I got the job and started demolition this afternoon so haven't got far yet. couldn't turn of the water as no one knows where the tap is (including the owner) and we couldn't find in the flat. I wondered if it might be in the flat below but the resident wasn't in to ask. its seems the tiles are on wood in some places and plaster in others, not sure how far back it all goes so waiting to see before deciding what depth backeroboard to buy. So far not wet underneath so that's good. No doubt I just havent got to the source of the problem yet.

[Colour Republic]

I can only dream of being that quick! but so far its the 2 layers of tiles with lots of big gaps. I got the job and started demolition this afternoon so haven't got far yet. couldn't turn of the water as no one knows where the tap is (including the owner) and we couldn't find in the flat. I wondered if it might be in the flat below but the resident wasn't in to ask. its seems the tiles are on wood in some places and plaster in others, not sure how far back it all goes so waiting to see before deciding what depth backeroboard to buy. So far not wet underneath so that's good. No doubt I just havent got to the source of the problem yet.

Usual stop cock places are - under the kitchen sink, by the boiler, under stairs, under floorboards by the front door and communal hallways (by or above the door to the flat).

You may find that the shower is fed directly off the bath, so check behind the bath panel for an isolation valve. Falling that if you get desperate or there isn't one (which is unlikely but not unheard of in some poor conversions) you could turn the water off to the whole building, In Gladstone Terrace most are converted houses so more than likely there is only one other flat so you don't have to upset too many people. In the street right on the boundary of the property you will see a small cast iron flap (3" x 3") in the pavement, under the flap is the tap to isolate the building (watch out for creepy crawlies in there)

[Mrs Tiler]

well we looked everywhere and eventually the neighbour went in the attic where apparently there were several stopcocks! we would have had to drain the tank to work out which was the one for the shower (there isnt a bath in the flat) so I am being really careful, well I would be careful anyway. Thanks

[Mrs Tiler]

latest pictures!

[mikethetile]

hi mrs t

i think you have found the source of the problem, theres no way that the shower enclosure would be watertight. water would have found its way through the outer skin of tiles blowing them off exposing the made up substrate underneath.

it all looks horrendous but chase all that rubbish off and you will be left with the original block work, bring the job forward with backer board , fully sealed and you have a good surface to tile on

double seal the tray, this means sealing around the tray before tiling and then after tiling seal around as usual.

this sounds belt and braces but its an insurance against the top seal failing

im pleased you got the job and hope it all goes well for you

mike

[Mrs Tiler]

thanks for advice, I'm off back there today to carry on the demolition, Its taking an age, I suppose I have done an actual 6/7 hours on it. I dont know if this is slow or what anyome would take. I imagine its a bit slow but I am inexperienced and not that strong - Yet!