i like butt jointing tiles

[sus]

Hello chaps
thinking of re tiling my kitchen using some B & Q 600X600 (porcelain) which I have left over from a job lot I bought for about £5 per meter, any way I want to butt up the tiles i.e. no spacers (I don’t know the correct term) I have seen this done many times but on a few jobs I have seen floors butt jointed with a few cracked tiles. Can you suggest why this has happened and how I should go about this on plywood base going straight on to 600x300 porcelain? I am not taking up the old tiles I have some costly devimat underneath that I do not want to kill (unless you can suggest something else). Thanks in anticipation
sus

[Dave]

where's the punch line....

[david campbell]

i'm with dave on this!

just to start with if your tiling onto ply then it must be a flexi adhesive-

this is to allow movement ,now if your tiling without spacers whats going to happen when there is movement

[Prem Tiler]

i read this and thought... hmmm I'll wait till some one qualified to comment

£5 m2 tiles from B&Q and your trying to save money on grout!!!!! I didn't think the credit crunch was that bad!!!!

[wetdec]

I have seen this done many times

ye right .............



..

[grumpygrouter]

Take it easy guys, this may well be a serious question as the poster doesn't know better. Lets point them in the right direction eh! We are supposed to be a friendly forum!!

[Prem Tiler]

GG your very right but I think by the replys sus will see its not a good idea.

[david campbell]

ok then!
firstly this really isn't a great idea,ideally you should strip back everything thats alredy down and start again,then the idea of "butt jointing" will only cause you problems later on as i previously said if your going to lay the tiles on ply there will always be movement therefore using a flexible adhesive and a flexible grout is the only way you can guarentee the tiling work will last for many tears to come

[Grace'sDad]

Butt jointing should never be done on timber or any floor which is likely to expand and contract. In the UK thanks to out beautiful climate, even asphalt and concrete floors are likely to move enough to upset butt jointed tiles (given the right combination of events).

Butt jointed tiles are seen mainly in warmer, more stable climates.

Not a very good idea in my opinion, even if it does look good (at first).

[faithhealer]

Hi suss, don't think you'll get much heat through two layers of tiles and a sheet of ply mate

[Grace'sDad]

Hi suss, don't think you'll get much heat through two layers of tiles and a sheet of ply mate

Very good point - I missed that!!!

[Leatherface]

Hi Mate,
Sorry, rip it up and start again, recommend at least 2mm spacer with flexi grout. Butt jointing floor tiles always increases the risk of tiles popping or cracking when expansion occurs. The flexi grout lines act as a barrier.
Regards

[kilty55]

if you butt joint them the end product will be like crazy paving,,b and q specials are all different sizes

[Leatherface]

if you butt joint them the end product will be like crazy paving,,b and q specials are all different sizes

I agree Kilty
No disrespect to guy who started this thread, but best place for B & Q tiles is in a skip, buried 200 miles underground in the Sahara Desert

[sus]

some one has re tiltled my post i think. it should have read "i like butt" anyway now thinking about it the butt jointed tiles i have seen are mostly on concrete, one was defo in wood floor but that is one of the ones with cracks. Secondly the flooring had new joists at 300mm centers, plywood 10mm + 18mm, then devimat then flexi adhisive (bal i cant remember whitch one) then 300x600 and i was intending to put the 600x600 on top with flexi (mapai) but now i will use spacers. I dare not take the old tiles off in case i break the UFH. I didnt mean i have seen loads of butt jointed tiles on wood substrate i mean i have seen lots of butt jointed tiles. i have them in my bathroom and they have been there for about 120 years

[rob]

I agree with Leatherface.... the chances are they will not be the same size and over a large area they will start to go out of line. you are better to use a larger spacer (maybe 3mm) so that you have a little to work with as you go.

Deffinatley not a good idea to butt them.

[Dave]

some one has re tiltled my post i think. it should have read "i like butt"anyway now thinking about it the butt jointed tiles i have seen are mostly on concrete, one was defo in wood floor but that is one of the ones with cracks. Secondly the flooring had new joists at 300mm centers, plywood 10mm + 18mm, then devimat then flexi adhisive (bal i cant remember whitch one) then 300x600 and i was intending to put the 600x600 on top with flexi (mapai) but now i will use spacers. I dare not take the old tiles off in case i break the UFH. I didnt mean i have seen loads of butt jointed tiles on wood substrate i mean i have seen lots of butt jointed tiles. i have them in my bathroom and they have been there for about 120 years

some one has re tiltled my post i think. it should have read "i like butt"

That was me.......not the best thread title to get peeps to view it..

i have them in my bathroom and they have been there for about 120 years

You will find that a very different fixing method was used and a concrete floor i gather..

[CJ]

Better turn the UFH full on and leave it on.

May warm up the tiles in time for next winter

[sus]

Sorry guys I have to disagree, I may not be a tiling god or even a full time tiller but these b&q tiles are pukka porcelain and they do them every now and again I saw them last in November in chocolate. I bought two pallets of these two years ago and I would put them up against any of the £80+ a meter Italian or porcelanosa ones I have bought since (for quality maybe not for design) they may not be as hard as the Chinese ones but all as straight as a die and floorless. May be you are talking about ceramic cheap ones.

[Leatherface]

Whoops, would like to add to my previous post, now I think again. Should have really added that with b & q tiles you should not even use spacers and do it by eye. Would ( now I have properly thought about it ) use at least a 5mm space, by eye. Some b & q tiles I have laid, have differed in size by up to 3mm.
BEWARE !!!
Better off : Bin them and get some decent quality tiles !

[sus]

just thought. i always advise people to leave UFH on all the time and let the stat do its work. I have mine at home all the time. How long does it take for ufh to heat up? I do a lot of wet UFH and once had about 120mm of screed on top of the 70mm i put down and from cold took a good 10 hours before you could feel it bit i put i down to freezing cold house and first time start up. Do you guys advise timed (ON OFF) UFH i usually use a programmable room stat and never had any problems.....

[sus]

like i said the are all straight as a die.

[Grace'sDad]

like i said the are all straight as a die.

I think you must have had a rogue "good" batch!

I kid you not, loads of us on here have used these and most of us have said "never again." Or at least we'd charge double next time!

[Uheat]

although not covering wet ufh. i think you might need to come on the UFH course i am running on the 18th March.

With Water UFH you are heating the screed and it is acting like a storage heater will take forever to warmup and will slowly realease the heat. Most people will 'charge' up at night if on economy 7 and trickle feed during the day.

From what you have said above you have had no Insulation in the floor what so ever, so no wonder it is taking forever to heat.

You should always use an insulation product under the heating to stop height loss downwards. Next time you do a floor like this give me a shout as you could use our 'inscreed' cable on top of our Ekoboards.

www.uheat.co.uk

[sus]

We cannot be taking about the same stuff. They turn up in b & q every now and again like I said last time I saw these ones was is November and was thinking of stocking them again cos I was so happy with them. 600x600 in a black box from Portugal micro bevel. I don’t buy my tiles from B&Q on the whole... I don’t buy from b&q on the whole, though I am a share holder and just spent about 3k in trade depot clearance and I am not snobby about where I buy stuff from if its good, its good and I do always look around and am always going shopping with customers and a lot of the time they show me the bargains. In the b&q case it was a pro tiller who pointed me to them and told me all the tillers know about these tiles but they go in a few hours. Have you a problem with these specific tiles or are you just slating b&q tiles.

[Dave]

Not all B&Q tiles are bad.......just some of the chinese stuff is rubbish.....

Anyway the tiles are ok lads....so back to what sus is to do about prep...

[faithhealer]

back to the ufh then. You talk about your expensive devi mat but are prepared to waste 'lecky' warming up two layers of tiles and ply. Devi mat on insulation boards with screed and a layer of tiles warms a cold conservatory up in only one hour. You shouldn't have to leave it on!

[Grace'sDad]

in a black box from Portugal micro bevel.

There's the difference then - the bad 'uns are Chinese.
Some of us can get a bit "prickly" over B&Q, but you're right; they're not all bad.
Some of the ceramics are a joy to use. And their raw terracotta aint bad either.

[garythetiler]

Sorry guys I have to disagree, I may not be a tiling god or even a full time tiller but these b&q tiles are pukka porcelain and they do them every now and again I saw them last in November in chocolate. I bought two pallets of these two years ago and I would put them up against any of the £80+ a meter Italian or porcelanosa ones I have bought since (for quality maybe not for design) they may not be as hard as the Chinese ones but all as straight as a die and floorless. May be you are talking about ceramic cheap ones.

the porcelain from band q is soluble salts porcelain ,it is a cheaper porcelain and is inferior in quailty to the italian produced porcelain which is predominately a clay /basalt and feltspar dust mix which uses virgin raw materials ,in laymans terms the italian tiles will be harder hold thear polish longer and have a longer wear than the soluble salt equivalent which i wouldnt use on a high traffic floor hope this helps

[LM Ceramics]

butt jointing tiles ive only seen is on new houses and that was to save time no floor tiles should be butt jointed as said in previous post one to allow for movement and 2 it looks awful for a start

i was on a job in blackburn i was doing the bathrooms and another tiler was tiling the kitchen as i didnt have time to complete the job he was brought in to help me by the customer who charged twice as much as me and tiled a kitchen and conservatory floor using galaxy granite on plywood butt jointed no expansion joints and the total area was 35 m2 i warned the customer but they werent having any of it and even said they preffered it butt jointed i told them of the dangers of failure