1st floor Kitchen floor tiles

Unregistered · 11-01-2009

Hi Guys,

I live in a 3 story town house built about 8/9 years ago. The kitchen is on the 1st floor with the bathroom and en-suite on the 2nd floor. The base flooring is constructed from large chipboard floor panels which have been nailed to the flooring joists.

In about 2 weeks we are having some limestone flooring tiles fitted which together with fitting will cost about £2K. I have had 4/5 tillers round to quote for the work but not many seem interested in taking on the job as each tile will have to be wet cut outside so there will be a lot of stair climbing to do! Also nobody seems interested in doing the prep - which I have had to do myself.

I have banged the existing nails in with a hammer and punch and driven in some 50mm screws in between the nails to secure the floor to the joists better. Although this has made the floor feel much tighter the floor still squeaks in places. I can’t detect much movement and I cannot seem to get rid of the squeaking. The area where it squeaks is where the floor seems to drop below the level of the skirting board by about 10mm; I presume that there has been some shrinkage since construction.

I have overlaid the flooring boards with 6mm exterior ply using 20mm screws at 6" centers. Height is an issue as if I use an 18mm board this would increase the height of my kitchen floor by around 40mm (tiles are 12mm thick). My washing machine would no longer fit and there would be a step from the landing to the kitchen.

Questions:

1. Is 6mm ply OK?

2. Is there any way to get rid of the squeaking?

3. Will the squeaking matter if they use flexible adhesive?
(I have been told by 1 guy that the grout will crack although the tiller who is to lay the floor says it will be OK)

I really want to get this sorted before the tiles are laid as lifting the floor to sort the problem after will be very costly.

Many thanks in advance for any help.

**pljtiling** · 11-01-2009

hi there your cocerns are understood what part of the coutry are you

Unregistered · 11-01-2009

Balsall Common - in between Coventry & Solihull

**Dave** · 11-01-2009

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Balsall Common - in between Coventry & Solihull

Woud you like to register on the forums then i will move this thread into the main tiling forums and it will get you more replies and then you can reply without having to have your replies approved before anybody see them, thus speeding up the replies for you..

**davy583** · 11-01-2009

The squeaking would suggest that the floor is moving when stood on and there for not solid.

I would strengthen the floor and use 12mm ply screwed down at 150mm centres maybe use glue under the ply for more strength.

If I where you I would have the floor looked at before the tiling or like you say it maybe costly to sort it later

**Dave** · 11-01-2009

6mm ply is too thin really mungo....especially when using a soft stone like limestone......youonly want to do this job once....
I can't beleive you haven't had a tile fixer who won't do his own prep work...aftwr all a tiler should do this , so he knows it has been done right.....

Are you sure he is up to the job..?...did you get any references..?..

**grumpygrouter** · 11-01-2009

Originally Posted by Dave

6mm ply is too thin really mungo....especially when using a soft stone like limestone......youonly want to do this job once....
I can't beleive you haven't had a tile fixer who won't do his own prep work...aftwr all a tiler should do this , so he knows it has been done right.....

Are you sure he is up to the job..?...did you get any references..?..

That worried me too Dave! Maybe he isn't a "real" tiler......

With the floor squeeking after the boards had been screwed down, I feel it will need to come up and be started afresh...extra noggins and 22mm ply springs to mind!

**Mungo5** · 11-01-2009

The guy seems to be a real tiller alright, I've checked out his website & his business card looks puka. He did give me 2 references when I asked for them but I must admit I was really busy over Christmas and never called them up. Most people I had round never got back to me. I was told by a builder friend that they would rather do easier jobs with fewer stairs!

Nobody I saw wanted to do prep. They all want to come in and just lay tiles - in and out and get paid. Also if I do the prep then they cannot be blamed if the tiles lift or crack I suppose.

When you say that it will need to come up and be started afresh do you mean the ply or the actual floor boards? 22mm ply + 12mm tile + adhesive = a step ladder to get into my kitchen. Surely there is a way of doing this without increasing the height by 40mm?

Oh yes I did have one guy who quoted £2K to do the entire job. The tiles are £1700 on top of this price. That’s nearly £4k for a floor. Pretty damn expensive if you ask me hence the reason I want to do what I can myself.

Remember though I can’t detect any movement, only squeaking. Most of the floor feels really solid it is just the bit that falls away from the skirting that is squeaking.

**grumpygrouter** · 11-01-2009

I was suggesting taking up your current floor boards, strengthening the floor by adding extra noggins between the joists and then laying 22mm wbp ply straight on the joists. You will then have very solid floor and no extra height issues.

If you have squeak from your floor there is movement somewhere. To spend £1700 on tiles alone and not address this properly could be very costly in the long term. If you read through this forum a little, you will find most guys on here prefer to prepare floors themselves or be very sure that the floor is good enough to accept the tiles, otherwise a) they certainly would not offer a guarantee or b) not do the job at all.

To have a small or no step at all, you need to start from the joists and ensure everything is solid. Finally, it can be a good idea to plan fully how to go about this. Different adhesive manufacturers have different procedures for tiling onto a timber surface To have a hope of any warranty from a manufacturer, you need to follow their recommendations for preparation.

Good luck with your project, keep us informed how you get on.

**Daz** · 11-01-2009

Has any of the tilers discussed decoupling membranes?
Aside from strengthening the floor correctly, I would be nervous of lateral movement with such a soft stone.

**andy tiler** · 11-01-2009

i agree with grumps its all down to preparation whatever you put on top is only as good as whats underneath

**surflaur** · 25-01-2009

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi Guys,

I live in a 3 story town house built about 8/9 years ago. The kitchen is on the 1st floor with the bathroom and en-suite on the 2nd floor. The base flooring is constructed from large chipboard floor panels which have been nailed to the flooring joists.

In about 2 weeks we are having some limestone flooring tiles fitted which together with fitting will cost about £2K. I have had 4/5 tillers round to quote for the work but not many seem interested in taking on the job as each tile will have to be wet cut outside so there will be a lot of stair climbing to do! Also nobody seems interested in doing the prep - which I have had to do myself.

I have banged the existing nails in with a hammer and punch and driven in some 50mm screws in between the nails to secure the floor to the joists better. Although this has made the floor feel much tighter the floor still squeaks in places. I can’t detect much movement and I cannot seem to get rid of the squeaking. The area where it squeaks is where the floor seems to drop below the level of the skirting board by about 10mm; I presume that there has been some shrinkage since construction.

I have overlaid the flooring boards with 6mm exterior ply using 20mm screws at 6" centers. Height is an issue as if I use an 18mm board this would increase the height of my kitchen floor by around 40mm (tiles are 12mm thick). My washing machine would no longer fit and there would be a step from the landing to the kitchen.

Questions:

1. Is 6mm ply OK?

2. Is there any way to get rid of the squeaking?

3. Will the squeaking matter if they use flexible adhesive?
(I have been told by 1 guy that the grout will crack although the tiller who is to lay the floor says it will be OK)

I really want to get this sorted before the tiles are laid as lifting the floor to sort the problem after will be very costly.

Many thanks in advance for any help.

If height is an issue i would replace the 6mm ply with 6mm cement board this is alot more stable and is fixed with adhesive and screws, and if you have a water spillage it will cope alot better than ply. Use a 2 part flexible adhesive for the tiling this can be obtained from Topps and is called Fast Flex, hope this helps Laur

**david campbell** · 25-01-2009

i would never let a customer do my prep work,no offence mate but your probably more clued up than most and have the initiative to come on here and get trusted advice,but if you ask a customer to do your prep work and for some reason the dont do it properly(usually cant be bothered or ignorance to the reason it needs done in the 1st place)then in the end its the tilers reputation that suffers when it goes wrong,i'd maybe give the references a call!