Quality tilers-guaranteed

[redfearntiling]

Debatable on if its the 'learn tiling in 5 days' courses or people just needing work and think they can tile because they tiled their bathroom at home but it seems to be ever increasing the amount of customers let down by bad workmanship.
We carry out work across the UK and guarantee or work redfearntiling.co.uk and work to the customers timescale.

[Dave]

Interesting introduction barry......I have seen bad workmanship from guys who have tiled for many years also.....so why do you just point out the course guys ..?

Are you finding it quiet on the work front, perhaps thats why you post this attack on course guys...

[redfearntiling]

Interesting introduction barry......I have seen bad workmanship from guys who have tiled for many years also.....so why do you just point out the course guys ..?

Are you finding it quiet on the work front, perhaps thats why you post this attack on course guys...

Sorry dave, it wasn't meant to be aimed just like that. Was just stating that there are a lot of complaints to bad workmanship and there also seems to be a lot of courses about learning to tile in a few days. I also put about more people coming out of work and starting up as tilers as they may have tiled their bathroom etc.
I think though that you must agree that you can't be a tiler in a few days, yes, you can learn a few basics but there are many different types of tiling and lots of problems that you can face.
If you don't think its the '5 day courses' or the job market as a whole would you mind me asking your opinion on why there seems to be a lot of unhappy customers ?

[john32145]

Well said, dont post often but i agree with Dave seems a strange way to introduce urself, u cant possibly say every bad tiling job is done by a tiler who has been on a course. If u think that its up to u, i've been tiling for a year now its been hard work trying to make a go off it but hopefully im getting there. I done a course at Diamond Training last year and i feel i can offer a top quality tiling to all my customers, i could also do as u have done and try and generate work through this site but i do not think thats what its all about.

John

[Dave]

I didn't say that all these courses are good.....far from it barry....

But i think it is more than just these courses that churn out wanna be tradesmen...what about plumbers who try their hand at tiling....or the plasterer who does .. or the odd job man...some of these peeps haven't been anywhere near a course.....at least the best of these course providers do teach how it should be done.....
I am in no way saying that a 5 day course can make you a time served tiler either, but it is better to have had some training than none at all and attempt to do a trade that you have no clue about...dont you agree.?

It is the same in all trades barry, you will always get the good and the bad....it is very unfortunate for the customer to endure this bad workmanship but it will always be there, unless the trade can be licensed to control it then there is nowt that can be done..

As for the job market...then if peeps go for a cheap job then they will get cheap work . simple as really..

But at least if peeps care enough to do some sort of training then isn't that a sign that they do care that they want to do it correctly ....all be it a small amount of training..

[Sir Ramic]

What would you have anyone who wanted to be a tiler do ? Go out in the garage and paint a tiler sign on the van and proclaim themself a tiler or go on a course and get started the right way ?
When i started 31 years ago there were no courses, basically i was labouring and learning by watching and starting off slowly. This could be a way to learn today except for one thing .....How many companies have apprentices these days ?? NOT MANY !
I think if you took your time to read the threads on this forum you would see that a lot of the people who have done courses say that its all a learning curve and they take it slowly.
Look at some of the workmanship that is reflected in the pictures of their jobs.
You cant assume that all these jobs you mention are from 5 day course tilers, as Dave said, some time served tilers have done and still do bad workmanship too.

[redfearntiling]

OK, can understand what you are both writing. yes these short courses now cover a lot of trades and i don't know of any where you can class yourself as a tradesman in 5 days (except painting. lol)
Yes, it is good and showing that some are serious by attending these courses but whatever the reason being there is just a lot of 'cowboys' out there. John, do you just do domestic ? Its good that you feel competent and have the confidence but i am sure that you must agree that after 1 year there must still be areas that you have to learn. If its basically domestic then after a year i am sure you can give your customers quality work (and yes, i have seen tilers in the business for 10 years that should have their work condemned) but there are also differences depending on the area. I recently had to do a 700 sq meter job because the 'experienced' tiler basically crapped himself because he had never come across anything like it before.
I apologise if i offend anyone as thats not what i was attempting to do, just wish there wasn't such a bad name for tradesman in the building trades and yes, i wish that there was tiling exams as such that maybe lasted a week and included different tiles, different areas, different problems. Some sort of exam a lot harder than NVQ.

[medlar]

seen lots of bad/dodgy work from "TIME SERVED TILERS" and if i am honest i would have to admit that about 23-24 years ago just after coming out of my apprenticeship i did a couple of jobs that i was not proud of,and i was time served then.These were commercial jobs and seeing as the company does not exist anymore i am sure i can name it "SAFEWAYS"

Dont make mistakes now or leave sloppy jobs

[Dave]

It's not exams we need barry......it's a licence to be in the trade.....a bit like corgi ( now gas safe) ...some states in the US you have to have a licence and a few other countries as well..

And NO a 5 day or 5 week course dose not make you a tradesmen barry....Experiance and time gives you that....please have a read about the forums and see exactly what we try to do to help make the tiling industry better....

We have a lot of time served tilers as members ( me included ) who like to see jobs done correctly .....

thanks for your input..

[tile55]

I can understand where Redfearn tiling is coming from to a certain extent, although the manner in which it was said wasn't the best.
I am a time served tiler, never been on a course for tiling in my life.
I did a 3 month C&G course for painting & decorating in 1998, and through the years have gained more experience, more confidence, discovered better ways to do certain things and generally got better at what I do.
In life you cannot beat experience, experience is worth soo much.
A course, no matter what it is, will never teach you everything that you need to know no matter how long the course is. However a course is designed to teach you the basics, and an introduction to the core elements of the subject matter. Sometimes a course is only as good, or as bad as its teacher.
I, like most tradespeople have seen a lot of bad work, also I have seen a lot of good work too.
Many "so called" tilers, are either plumbers, builders, carpenters or just odd job men having a go, so therefore you can't criticise guys fresh from a course as being a cowboy. They are in a quandary after leaving a course.
How do you get better at tiling - experience, how do you get the experience - by doing tiling.
If you look in anywhere people are advertising their tiling services. Say for an example there are 10 adverts for tiling, garanteed half, if not most of those guys are not proper tilers, ie they do other things like plumbing etc. their day job is not tiling.
Tilers tile, plumbers plumb, painters paint etc.

[medlar]

I can understand where Redfearn tiling is coming from to a certain extent, although the manner in which it was said wasn't the best.
I am a time served tiler, never been on a course for tiling in my life.
I did a 3 month C&G course for painting & decorating in 1998, and through the years have gained more experience, more confidence, discovered better ways to do certain things and generally got better at what I do.
In life you cannot beat experience, experience is worth soo much.
A course, no matter what it is, will never teach you everything that you need to know no matter how long the course is. However a course is designed to teach you the basics, and an introduction to the core elements of the subject matter. Sometimes a course is only as good, or as bad as its teacher.
I, like most tradespeople have seen a lot of bad work, also I have seen a lot of good work too.
Many "so called" tilers, are either plumbers, builders, carpenters or just odd job men having a go, so therefore you can't criticise guys fresh from a course as being a cowboy. They are in a quandary after leaving a course.
How do you get better at tiling - experience, how do you get the experience - by doing tiling.
If you look in anywhere people are advertising their tiling services. Say for an example there are 10 adverts for tiling, garanteed half, if not most of those guys are not proper tilers, ie they do other things like plumbing etc. their day job is not tiling.
Tilers tile, plumbers plumb, painters paint etc.

you are correct mate,over the last 6-7 months in our local rag there has been an influx of tilers,advertising plastering,plumbing,electrics (part p,self certification) these guys are probably guys who can do a bit of everything BUT with NO training or qualifications behind them,"oh yes i can put adhesive on a wall and push the tile into it" therefore i can tile not
Anyway nobody knows everything about tiling,time served,done a course or whatever,simply because they are bringing out new addys,grouts etc all the time,so things change constantly,also someone will know an easier way of doing a certain aspect than someone else.
ALL i can say to the lads who complete these courses and are serious about making a decent living and decent reputation,is take your time,be careful,double check your setting out,cuts etc and if in doubt,ask someone for advice or help, thats what we are all members here for,to give help and advice when we can

[davy583]

Hi all
When I came out of school you could not get an apprentiship at anything never mind tiling and yes it is true that the reason tiling came to my attention is because I tiled my own kitchen. That is when I realised that I enjoyed tiling and wanted to make it a fulltime job for myself. All in all I believe the course and the gear has cost me about 2 grand so believe me when I say that I am very serous about the job I do in the customers house. But it dose **** me off a bit when people say the word tradesman as if it means something special. Everybody I know has had a tradesman that has done what they consider to be a bad job. My Moto if you like is IF ITS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR MY HOME ITS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR THERE’S. I all do the job to the best of my abilities and up till now have never had any complaints.
Sorry if it’s ruffled some feathers but I have had my say.

[Dave Ramsden]

It would seem that alot of people who do the courses and invest in a business of there own do put the time and effort in to make it work. I personally know of one local guy who, after two years of constant graft, has a very decent client list working in some high class areas.
The thing is, I also know there are tilers out there who have the newest vans and the best tools and they talk the talk, but when left on there own turn out worthless results which costs the customer.
Some people are used to working in there own time, the quality slacks under pressure. In my opinion a true tiler can land on any job and work with any material with ease and speed, regardless of whether he has come from a training course or a college.
Its all about turning out a quality job for the customer and in some cases, working under extreme pressure to get this result.
If you can do this, then your a tiler in my book!

[medlar]

It would seem that alot of people who do the courses and invest in a business of there own do put the time and effort in to make it work. I personally know of one local guy who, after two years of constant graft, has a very decent client list working in some high class areas.
The thing is, I also know there are tilers out there who have the newest vans and the best tools and they talk the talk, but when left on there own turn out worthless results which costs the customer.
Some people are used to working in there own time, the quality slacks under pressure. In my opinion a true tiler can land on any job and work with any material with ease and speed, regardless of whether he has come from a training course or a college.
Its all about turning out a quality job for the customer and in some cases, working under extreme pressure to get this result.
If you can do this, then your a tiler in my book!

They are good examples Dave,I know a youngish guy who lives opposite my mother,he done a 4 week tiling course,then went on to do an electrical course (now he is part P reg with elecsa) then he done a plumbing course,he is now in the middle of a gas fitting course,went out and spent £10,000 on a new van and the lad has not even done a paying job yet,but his family are money people

Jimmy

[cornish_crofter]

Resourcefullness, and knowing your limitations is the name of the game.

Experience helps but at the end of the day it's all about what you can deliver on the day.

Some jobs go well and others not so well. You learn from your mistakes and take comfort from your successes.

As far as jobs are concerned I've succeeded in accomplashing everything I've set out to do. I've never had to tell the customer that I can't do the job, after I've taken it on.

On the other hand I'm not taking on very complex work.

I've never been on a tiling course, in fact I've not been on any course, apart from the electrical C and G 2381 and 2391 courses. Yet my work passes muster.

If I want to move onto the next stage in tiling then a course is probably my next move, just haven't got around to it yet.

[Alberta Stone]

Conscientious is a good word which fits any quality tile fixer.
If you have that quality you will do good even if you get in over your head.
I concur with what has been said thus far.
I have seen some really bad work from old hands and some very impressive results from raw recruits.
Tiling is not rocket science, but it is an art and requires discipline and dedication if you wish to do it well for the long haul with consistently good results.

[chris.tiling]

I really dont see the purpose of this thread other than a company trying to pick up work from customers who may come across this excellent site and read it and then think about using a large company. I am a "course tiler" and therefore feel aggrieved at some of the comments from the originator, but I am so pleased to hear some very experienced tilers comments about the fact that it is all down to an individuals desire and ability to do a great job for their customer irrespective of where they learned their trade
...and breathe!!!!

[medlar]

well said Chris, you can please some of the people some of the time,but you cant please all the people all the time.Its what you take from your course,and what you learn afterwards that helps you become a good fixer,that and some practical work,but as everything in life,the more you do,the better you get.

Jimmy

[doug boardley]

I've never been on a tiling course, but i would imagine they prepare you to start learning, an analogy would be something like passing your driving test and realising that you're not gonna be chauffering the queen straight away!!

[Grace'sDad]

I think I better stay off this thread, other than to say that Redfearn got a cheap ad in at the start!

[A.W.]

maybe redfearn is just telling us that he cares about our trade. keep it up.

Al

[davy583]

maybe redfearn is just telling us that he cares about our trade. keep it up.

Al

so on 1 else is welcome in your trade????

[A.W.]

Hi Dave
if you know what to do, you most certenly are welcome in our trade. if not then put on your L plate and start tiling,but do let customers know about your ability.

Al

[david campbell]

iv'e been tiling mates and families houses for about 5 years and only decided to do a 5 day course this year and take it up full time(lots of encouragement from friends),already doing work for 2 kitchen companies and rakes of work from refferals,done the course to learn the finer points and ways to make myself quicker,already been told my work is a lot neater than several well known local tilers and i am able to make an above average wage,so i am struggling to see where people can savage a 5 day course,especially considering i have spent 10 years in the building game.

[Corky]

I am a time served Plasterer,took the job cos at the time work was scarce.Time passes quickly and 1 wife 3 grown up sproggs later Im still at it,never did take the leap of faith neede to start myself up in a new career/trade.Meanwhile I have come across the "fly by nights" ,cowboys,5/8 tradesmen that dont feel the customer deserves their best effort to produce a good job.I have heard all trades come out with sayings such as "you cant see it from my house",or "theres no bus's passing this way" etc.These lads in general are weeded out by their attitude and the work they produce.Its not just a trade thing,think about it we have all heard tales of bad Docters,Teachers even bin men,just a minority of peeps who reckon the work doesent deserve" their time served hard gotten skills" and will take the money and run.
I have also come across many guys that have either been labouring,working at something else or a very inquisitive apprentice who want to learn,initally because its a way way of upping their earning power ar need to change jobs for some other reason,a lot of these lads have the right attitude to work ,respect for clients etc and do learn learn very quickly. So I guess there is good and bad in all professions and anyone that goes and spends a little bit of time seeking out good instruction , a good buisness plan and sets themselves up on a course that will explain a lot of the theory and some of the basics in practical ,has every chance with experience of becoming a very competant Tiler,Plasterer .

[david campbell]

I am a time served Plasterer,took the job cos at the time work was scarce.Time passes quickly and 1 wife 3 grown up sproggs later Im still at it,never did take the leap of faith neede to start myself up in a new career/trade.Meanwhile I have come across the "fly by nights" ,cowboys,5/8 tradesmen that dont feel the customer deserves their best effort to produce a good job.I have heard all trades come out with sayings such as "you cant see it from my house",or "theres no bus's passing this way" etc.These lads in general are weeded out by their attitude and the work they produce.Its not just a trade thing,think about it we have all heard tales of bad Docters,Teachers even bin men,just a minority of peeps who reckon the work doesent deserve" their time served hard gotten skills" and will take the money and run.
I have also come across many guys that have either been labouring,working at something else or a very inquisitive apprentice who want to learn,initally because its a way way of upping their earning power ar need to change jobs for some other reason,a lot of these lads have the right attitude to work ,respect for clients etc and do learn learn very quickly. So I guess there is good and bad in all professions and anyone that goes and spends a little bit of time seeking out good instruction , a good buisness plan and sets themselves up on a course that will explain a lot of the theory and some of the basics in practical ,has every chance with experience of becoming a very competant Tiler,Plasterer .

totally agree corky!
all it takes is a large dollop of no-how and a lot of pride in your work and most people can put there minds to anything

[Dave Ramsden]

iv'e been tiling mates and families houses for about 5 years and only decided to do a 5 day course this year and take it up full time(lots of encouragement from friends),already doing work for 2 kitchen companies and rakes of work from refferals,done the course to learn the finer points and ways to make myself quicker,already been told my work is a lot neater than several well known local tilers and i am able to make an above average wage,so i am struggling to see where people can savage a 5 day course,especially considering i have spent 10 years in the building game.

I think in your post David, most peoples points have been put accross. Its not how you learnt, its how you put what you have larnt into practice.

Keep up the good work!

[JIMBOB187]

[quote=redfearntiling;151066]OK, can understand what you are both writing. yes these short courses now cover a lot of trades and i don't know of any where you can class yourself as a tradesman in 5 days (except painting. lol)

Nice slur for all the painters out there that take great pride in their job mate.

I have seen bad jobs from tilers of twenty years and newbies straight from a course, it's down to the individual.

[frostfree]

Totally agree about it being down too the individual. Some people have an natural ability or gift and can produce excellent quality work with very little training or experience. Others can have years of experience or training and struggle to produce quality work no matter how hard they try. Those with natural talent also seem to be able to transfer their skills to other trades with relative ease. Fortunate to have worked with a bloke who was not only a fantastic tiler but also a master woodworker and extremely competent bricklayer.
He came from an engineering background and never had any training in the construction industry. Just has that natural ability.

[Dave]

Natural ability is the physical appearance of tiling......It is knowledge and experiance that make a good tiler along with good hand/eye skills....

You can fix tiles all day long and make them look good but if they ain't fixed correctly or the correct prep/materials used then it isn't right.....it is just a good looking job...

Patients and knowledge of the trade is the main points to me....