Help!: Flex adhesive on wooden floor

[PJS Sully]

Hi,

My 1st post, here goes....

Have been tiling for 2 years now but come across a problem today that has never happened before. Am tiling onto a wooden chipboard floor that that has been overboarded with ply and primed. I have used a single part PALACE rapid set flex adhesive as movement seems to be minimal. When I came in the next day, the adhesive had stuck rigid to the wood but not to the tiles. The tiles just simply popped up. The house is 500 years old (yes 500) and I have also had a problem with the wall tiles drying because of condensation. I spoke to another tiler who said it was either an incorrect mix (never had a problem before) or condensation which seemed a bit of a coincidence. Any ideas please before I attempt to re-lay the floor tomorrow morning? Cheers

[doug boardley]

there's been a lot of problems on forum lately mate with palace, was it from topps tiles? get in touch with them and don't let them fob you off with contaminated ply, insist on a test, if you still have a bag with batch number etc make a note of it. good luck!
Doug

[david campbell]

would have used bal rapidflexi myself never once had a problem with it,if there is a major condensation problem then you are tiling onto a wet wall,would prob try using a rapid set for this

[PJS Sully]

interesting...yes it is from Topps, only use it when I have to as normally use BAL or Howtex but never had a problem with it before. Did speak to Topps today and they are doing some tests on the batch and rep is coming to look at tile? Have not heard anything yet. Will use BAL single part flex for the re-lay. Cheers

[Dave]

Sully...did the palace adhesive harden..allow though it didn't stick to the tile...?

[PJS Sully]

Yes Dave, the adhesive hardened and set fine to the wood but not the tile? Its a ceramic tile

[Dave]

just trying to gather your methods thats all....

what size notch trowel and what about adhesive consistency...was the tile back profiled...?..

[Dave]

OH!! and how long was your adhesive bed down before placing tiles into it..?

[doug boardley]

was wondering as well wether it's "skinned"

[mike62]

marine ply is the best to tile on the old ply must have rippled also double fix the tiles

[MJT]

was wondering as well wether the back of the tiles were dusty ?

[PJS Sully]

10 mm notch floor trowel, tiles were not back profiled, adhesive was only down a matter of seconds as small bathroom floor so was working my way out of the room (approx 4 sqm). Adhesive was not skinned/going off either as laid the floor dry and then mixed up when ready to lay. Assume it would not have taken to wood if it was? Tiles were stored indoors and definitely not dusty. I have laid the same tile before with no problems. Cheers

[Dave]

10 mm notch floor trowel, tiles were not back profiled, adhesive was only down a matter of seconds as small bathroom floor so was working my way out of the room (approx 4 sqm). Adhesive was not skinned/going off either as laid the floor dry and then mixed up when ready to lay. Assume it would not have taken to wood if it was? Tiles were stored indoors and definitely not dusty. I have laid the same tile before with no problems. Cheers

Cheers .. just covering all bays here......deffo get a tech call out....have you kept some sticky to get tested..?..

And also as mentioned watch out for the old topps saying...THE PLY MUST HAVE BEEN CONTAMINATED..

[PJS Sully]

Cheers, have only got whats on the wood as bag and unused adhesive was thrown and taken before I got there the next morning. Apparently Topps are testing their batch but I don't hold out much hope. They want the floor re-laid in the morning so looks like I will be knocking up all the old adhesive first before re-laying.

[Dave]

I suppose at least the worse case scenario is the cost of more adhesive....at least the tiles are ok and will just go back down like a jigsaw....

[doug boardley]

I suppose at least the worse case scenario is the cost of more adhesive....at least the tiles are ok and will just go back down like a jigsaw....

but probably not palace!!

[dptiling]

just stuck 160 m2 of slate
client wanted to use that adhesvise from tops because it was cheap 13.50 a bag
talked them out of it thank ( don't swear) did
used 46 bags of bal single part no probs.

[robbbin]

I use topps grey flexi all the time not because its the cheapest it does not go off to quick which I prefer against some other rapids not had a prob though on ply

[pjc]

PJS Sully can i ask how thick the ply was and did you skim the backs of the tiles :Pete

[PJS Sully]

Its 9mm ply (I prefer to use the 6mm hardibacker) but plumber had fixed and primed it as I was squeezing the job in as a favour for him. Wish I hadn't now! I checked the substrate and movement was minimal and didn't seem any more than other ply I have tiled on in the past. I didn't skim the back of the tiles though. I knocked up all the old adhesive off the ply today, took me a while. There was definitely no problem with it taking to the wood. I have decided to re-lay it with BAL two part flex as I can't see how good the substrate is underneath the ply.

[pjc]

Its 9mm ply (I prefer to use the 6mm hardibacker) but plumber had fixed and primed it as I was squeezing the job in as a favour for him. Wish I hadn't now! I checked the substrate and movement was minimal and didn't seem any more than other ply I have tiled on in the past. I didn't skim the back of the tiles though. I knocked up all the old adhesive off the ply today, took me a while. There was definitely no problem with it taking to the wood. I have decided to re-lay it with BAL two part flex as I can't see how good the substrate is underneath the ply.

2 Problems i think, the floorboards should be screwed to the joists then if you use ply it should be 18 mm ply sealed on the back and edges and screwed to the floorboards 9mm is not suitable, you should also skim the backs to insure a solid bed i think the reason they have come up is there is to much movement or else the adhesive would of come up just as easy from the ply if you had of skim the backs i think the tiles would of cracked rather than come up whole you may get away with 2 part but i think there is to much movement and the tiles will crack with 2 part :Pete

[andy-p]

the 9mm ply had nothing to do with the tiles popping as they came up the next day with no traffic on them , if the substrate is suitably rigid you will have no probs with the fastflex ...

[pjc]

the 9mm ply had nothing to do with the tiles popping as they came up the next day with no traffic on them , if the substrate is suitably rigid you will have no probs with the fastflex ...

suitably rigid ? do you think it could of delaminated ? i did say i think it might of been the problem i am a not quite as sure as you are :Pete

[doug boardley]

firm I've sbbied to for years will only overlay 6mm wbp over chipboard granted its 22mm board and i screw every 150mm, but never, touch wood,had a failure (yet)