First travertine job

[kaharrison9]

Hi all
Have picked up so much knowledge and advice recently since starting out in tiling from you guys,cheers.
I am at the weekend going to look at the possibility of tiling a bare bathroom in travertine and have no experience at all with it.
The walls have been skimmed onto plasterboard and the old tiles have been taken off.
Has anybody any pointers of how i approach this when looking at this job.
i.e. is the weight ratio of trav on skim to much?if so would it be best to taken the boards down and replace with something like Hardibacker board?
Is there a way of working out the weight per m2 of tiles?
How do you do a large cut around a waste pipe with travertine?
Would it need waterproofing around the shower area?
Any other thoughts or possible problems i could encounter?
Thanks for your help
Kev

[whitebeam]

This for tile weight Tiles and Adhesive Weight Per Square Metre - THE TILE SOURCE This will help decide on what back ground you may need, I think all showers should need tanking but depends how often it gets used.
I would seal after grouting but work clean and to cut round the waste pipe, mark the trav and cut slots to your marks, use nippers or if your've a roto zip may give you a better curve. Wet cutting with trav

[beanz]

A basic rule of thumb, is if it's over 9mm thick it's too heavy for skim.

Nice link there Whitebeam, think i'll bookmark that one.

[doug boardley]

do you have a hole drilling kit Kev? it's quite good to drill through ime,and I've used my jig saw on trav wit no probs,I'd proceed as though it was just a normal job,(better check weight issues on whitebeams post).I tend to back butter with trav, just a light skim, and best to use spf. Good luck mate

[kaharrison9]

Cheers all.
Already building up a better understanding of working with travetine.
Very useful link whitebeam it answers something i've mulled over for a while.
Have no drilling equipment yet but will be looking into buying.Is it one type of drill for all natural stone or is there a specific one for travertine?
Also i'll explain to the client it would be best to keep the tile under 9mm if he was to have something thicker would the best practise be to actually take off the old plaster board and replace with hardbacker board or is there a more simpler method?
Any other thoughts or suggestions of working with travetine greatly appreciated.
Kev

[beanz]

Depending on what weight tiles he goes for, you might get away with just replacing the plasterboard (without the skim). There's a thread somewhere on here with the weight ratio's of different substrates; just do a search, i'm sure you'll find it. I think Plasterboard will take around 32kg/m², but that's off the top of my head, so you'll need to double check that... Memory ain't what it was hehe!

As for bits, you'll want Diamond coated. There's a nice Marcrist kit at TradeTiler.Ltd Hole Cutting A bit pricey (there are definitely cheaper alternatives), but they're meant to be really good.

[beanz]

There's a thread somewhere on here with the weight ratio's of different substrates; just do a search, i'm sure you'll find it.

That might not be as easy as it sounds... I just tried, and the search function is having a fit! Keeps going to a blank page, then when i try to re-fresh it's saying i have to wait 30 seconds!?! If i have any joy, i'll post the link up here.

*EDIT* Here ya go mate: Link Although the plasterboard render has now also been dropped to 20kg/m², i believe.

[bigandy]

You WONT need diamond tipped drills for trav, it's so soft you can use traditional drills and normal tools. Diamond bits are only needed for hard materials such as porcelain,granite ect.save your money.

[beanz]

You WONT need diamond tipped drills for trav, it's so soft you can use traditional drills and normal tools. Diamond bits are only needed for hard materials such as porcelain,granite ect.save your money.

Sorry mate, my bad. I thought you needed Diamond for all natural stone.

[TilingLogistics]

You WONT need diamond tipped drills for trav, it's so soft you can use traditional drills and normal tools. Diamond bits are only needed for hard materials such as porcelain,granite ect.save your money.

Andy,

Whilst you are correct in what you say Diamond tips are better for drilling natural stone. I appreciate you can get away with normal drills on Travertine but diamonds will do a better job. Normal drill bits by which you mean masonry drills are more likely to split the stone especially if there is a fault below where the hole is being drilled. Diamond bits work on the opposite of what people think i.e. the softer the stone the harder the diamond required. Hard stone such as granite porcelain requires softer diamonds

Kev

[beanz]

The softer the stone the harder the diamond required. Hard stone such as granite porcelain requires softer diamonds

This is getting complicated now! I didn't realise the Diamond bits came in different grades too!?!

Cheers for the info Kev, i don't suppose you could give us a quick run down on choosing the right bit for the job? I was looking at getting the Marcrist PG850 Starter Kit, but maybe that's overkill if the bits are only for hard tiles!?!

[Oli]

This is getting complicated now! I didn't realise the Diamond bits came in different grades too!?!

Cheers for the info Kev, i don't suppose you could give us a quick run down on choosing the right bit for the job? I was looking at getting the Marcrist PG850 Starter Kit, but maybe that's overkill if the bits are only for hard tiles!?!

Mate, send a PM to member 365drills he'll sort you out no problem, he even offers a discount to forum members and i can vouch for the service and quality from personal experience

[beanz]

Cheers Oli.

I'm not sold on the 365 system, as, from what i can see, you must have to keep stopping to add water!?!?! Maybe i'm looking at it the wrong way, but i only have 2 hands.

[grumpygrouter]

Andy,

Whilst you are correct in what you say Diamond tips are better for drilling natural stone. I appreciate you can get away with normal drills on Travertine but diamonds will do a better job. Normal drill bits by which you mean masonry drills are more likely to split the stone especially if there is a fault below where the hole is being drilled. Diamond bits work on the opposite of what people think i.e. the softer the stone the harder the diamond required. Hard stone such as granite porcelain requires softer diamonds

Kev

I assume you are talking about the adhesive that attached the diamond grit to the core shank Kev? The diamonds come away easier with "softer" adhesive thereby giving newer cutting surfaces more of the time, therefor speeding up the cutting.

[kaharrison9]

Hi all
Have been to look at this first bathroom floor/wall travertine job i mentioned earlier.It went well and the customer also wants his en-suite doing and a large kitchen in spring.
Great chance to get some experience and if all goes well confidence.
The only downside is he took me to a neighbours house who has recently had the bathroom done in 13mm trav on a skimmed wall.It looked to be tiled to a very good standard but when i mentioned without been critical there is a weight ratio for walls and these walls probably exceeded it you could sense it went a little cold and he mentioned i was the first person to raise this,what would happen if he had already have bought the same tiles and was i suggesting his bathroom needed re-boarding.
I've left explaining it would be best if he could perhaps chose some travertine tilles down to 9mm and am thinking of passing on some info on weight.
He still seems keen for me to take on the work but how would you guys have played this?
By trying to stick to a standard this guy is maybe thinking compared to others i'm going to be an obsticle and possibly going to cost him extra money.
Cheers for your thoughts
Kev

[beanz]

Kev, you're probably gonna come across this a lot. I know a "multi-skilled" builder, who has hung Marble, over 1" thick, onto Plaster render. It hasn't come down yet (been up for a while), but that's one hell of a risk! He replaced one of the stud walls, as it wasn't very strong (only 2" stud), and he didn't want to kill the customer... He doesn't seem very aware of weight ratio's!?!

I haven't worked with Travertine, but i know some natural stone can be much more likely to crack at thinner sizes, so not sure if you want to advise him to look for thinner Trav. Hopefully one of the more experienced tilers here will have a difinitive answer for you though.

[TilingLogistics]

This is getting complicated now! I didn't realise the Diamond bits came in different grades too!?!

Cheers for the info Kev, i don't suppose you could give us a quick run down on choosing the right bit for the job? I was looking at getting the Marcrist PG850 Starter Kit, but maybe that's overkill if the bits are only for hard tiles!?!

I think the 365 drills are fine for what you want and they do a very good job. I would advise against going down the route of buying very expensive kits unless you use them a lot and can justify the cost

Kev

[TilingLogistics]

I assume you are talking about the adhesive that attached the diamond grit to the core shank Kev? The diamonds come away easier with "softer" adhesive thereby giving newer cutting surfaces more of the time, therefor speeding up the cutting.

No Grumps actually I wasn't. My diamonds are vacuum brazed. I was relating to the Mohs scale of hardness and trying to explain (Not very well) the way that diamonds cut without getting too technical. But essentially diamonds cut and drill best if they are used slowly with plenty of water where as masonry drills normally rely on shock with hard materials but will cut and drill on soft stone after a fashion. Its the same as a 12Volt drill will drill a hole but a 24 V does the job better but they both rely on the drill bit to cut

Kev

[bigandy]

I think the 365 drills are fine for what you want and they do a very good job. I would advise against going down the route of buying very expensive kits unless you use them a lot and can justify the cost

Kev

thats sort of what i was aiming at i should have said dont waste your money you can get by with normal drills although i use diamond bits was nt tryin to be technical but tryin to save him some money

sorry for my technical inaccuracy consider my wrist slapped kev

[whitebeam]

If your using a certain size on a regular bases perhaps go for a better quality and for the ones you don't use a lot go for the cheaper side of the market

[heatybob]

hi all,
can someone clear this up for me and poss help kev,
with reguard weight ratios,obviosly travis denser than ceramics so by fitting thinner trav are you therefore not overloading the wall,ie does the weight ratio relate to the type of material or the thickness of material,surly 9mm trav is heavier than 9mm ceramic and if this is the case then are you not still overloading the wall?
not sure if i put the Q across to well.but i hope you understannd wot i mean
thx
ged

[doug boardley]

can you ring trav supplier and ask weight/m2? somewhere there's the guide to weight ratio substrates (Oli's bible I think)

[whitebeam]

hi all,
can someone clear this up for me and poss help kev,
with reguard weight ratios,obviosly travis denser than ceramics so by fitting thinner trav are you therefore not overloading the wall,ie does the weight ratio relate to the type of material or the thickness of material,surly 9mm trav is heavier than 9mm ceramic and if this is the case then are you not still overloading the wall?
not sure if i put the Q across to well.but i hope you understannd wot i mean
thx
ged

If you go to the start of the thread there is tile to weight ratios link

[TilingLogistics]

thats sort of what i was aiming at i should have said dont waste your money you can get by with normal drills although i use diamond bits was nt tryin to be technical but tryin to save him some money

sorry for my technical inaccuracy consider my wrist slapped kev

Rubbish! If we all just listened and didn't offer an opinion the Forum would be a boring place. I value all advice on here and No one knows everything least of all me. I just misread your post should have read it twice really. Sorry

Kev

[cornish_crofter]

As for the 365 drills. You have the option of buying a set then costing the ones that wear out against the job, treat them like a consumable. They don't last forever, but they are good for what they are.

I just ripped through 2 porcelein holes with the 30mm and it's still good to go. As to adding water then you simply just give the drilling a break and add then go again.

[doug boardley]

when I'm holing, I speed clamp tile, and when bit has got a bite I use a spray bottle to wet the bit whilst drilling one handed

[TilingLogistics]

when I'm holing, I speed clamp tile, and when bit has got a bite I use a spray bottle to wet the bit whilst drilling one handed

We will have to start calling you "Doug The Kid Boardley" soon

Kev

[Oli]

Cheers Oli.

I'm not sold on the 365 system, as, from what i can see, you must have to keep stopping to add water!?!?! Maybe i'm looking at it the wrong way, but i only have 2 hands.

Just clamp or kneel on the tile leaving both hands free, one to hold the drill, one to hold a spray bottle or to hold a wet sponge against the bit, I must admit i've never had any probs drilling with the 365 bits, either drilling fixed or unfixed tiles, the bits have a good life aswell, Last time i saw an armeg kit demo'd it took the rep about 5 minutes to set up the water cooling system, by which time i'd have already drilled the hole, and the equivalent set was 6 times more than the equivilant 365 kit.

[Oli]

hi all,
can someone clear this up for me and poss help kev,
with reguard weight ratios,obviosly travis denser than ceramics so by fitting thinner trav are you therefore not overloading the wall,ie does the weight ratio relate to the type of material or the thickness of material,surly 9mm trav is heavier than 9mm ceramic and if this is the case then are you not still overloading the wall?
not sure if i put the Q across to well.but i hope you understannd wot i mean
thx
ged

The most simple way to calculate is to weigh a box of the tiles in question or ask the manufacturer / retailer for the weight, then multiply the weight of the tiles by the number of boxes required to tile 1m2, you also need to take into account weight for adhesive and grout, at approximatley 4kg / m2.

The substrate weigh loading rates are here

Hope that helps

[doug boardley]

We will have to start calling you "Doug The Kid Boardley" soon

Kev

I do hope that you're not saying I'm a cowboy Kev!!