Help!: 600 x 300 porcelain floor tiles that bend

[marcus]

Hi,

I am new to the forum and would really welcome some help.

I have been tiling as part of my general refurbishment business for twenty years and have never had any problems to date with tiling.

However I have just finished a bathroom floor in London using 600 x 300 porcelain tiles with staggered joints.
After the job was finished and grouted it became clear that some of the tiles were slightly bowed in the centre falling at both ends (slightly bent tile). This caused a really bad visual of a dark shadow as the window was lighting straight across the worse of the tiles.
The tile shop have said that porcelain tiles of this size should not be 50/50 staggered joints and a professional tiler should know this and that I should have checked every tile to make sure they were completely flat.

To my mind if the tile is bent the tile is bent and wherever you stagger the joint it will show.Obviously I should have picked up on it at the time but was overlooked at the time.

Have I done something wrong or could someone advise me if this is a common problem and what steps I should have taken to prevent this.

I really hope for some helpful advice,

Many thanks

Marcus

[Dave]

Hi marcus and welcome........this is a common problem with some larger sized tiles...especially the porcleain ones.....if a staggered bond is required then using a wider joint helps loose the bend..

[Fekin]

Longer rectangle tiles like a 600 x 300 always has the possibility of bowing really, and should always be checked while fitting is in progress, like for any possible tile defects, but as for the tile shop saying you shouldn't tile with them in the brickbond fashion is stupid... though the pattern of brickbond will always show any defects in a tiles shape more than say straight set.

[grumpygrouter]

Porcelain tiles of this size quite often have this problem. It is due to the firing process, and one of the reasons I try and steer away from this style unless I know for sure the tiles are flat.

[marcus]

Thanks guys for your responses.

I had slightly lost my confidence with tiling after this but it is good to know there is something I can do to check it in future.

Although I think I may steer clear of staggered joints on this size of tile again.

I have laid lots of limestone this size over large floor areas, big conservatories etc and never had a problem.
Is it more prone to happen on porcelain or can it be any type of tile.

[Dave]

It does tend to be the porcelain range of tiles .....as large format stone are machined flat...it's the firing of the porcelain and then the stacking of these tiles i think that cause them to bend......but you can brickbond with them with patience...

[marcus]

Thanks Dave,

Very useful, will be very careful in future and watch out for this next time !

[Daz]

Interesting post Marcus - thank you.

I've done quite a few floors and walls with 60 x 30 porcy and have encountered one or two similar issues. I put it down to experience and ended up taking that bit longer on the job to make the best I could and reduce any lipping. I didn't realise that there would be possible discrepencies with the tiles, although, I have posted a similar thread regarding banana shaped tiles before now .

I'll be more aware in future now .

[Gazebo]

I have just tiled a floor, brickbond with 600x300 grey porcelain tiles, i also noticed a slight bend in a few of the tiles fortunately for me it was prior to laying them so i hopefully i avoided the problem, but glad you bought it up as i will take extra care in future..

[TilingLogistics]

This is a problem that is rearing its ugly head more and more especially with the advent of very large format porcelain. The longer they are, the more likely you are going to get Planimetric tolerance problems. I am with Dave on this a lot of the problems could be avoided with correct stacking and packaging after the tiles have been fired. The cheaper end of the market seem to have the most problems. I have honed two porcelain installations this year. All I can say is if you have large format porcelain to fix especially brickbond then check each individual tile for flatness and put the bad ones to one side for cuts or return them to the shop for exchange.

Kev

[atec]

I also have finished a floor a week ago with 600 x 300 porc, i used self leveling compound and thought i messed up as some off the tiles were lipping, took me longer than expected to sort it, now i know the reason why.

[doug boardley]

If you do them brickbond I think it's wise to tell customer that lippage can occur with these types of tile

[365drills]

My tiler did warn me that brickbond had a tendency to kick out but mainly due to the preperation of the wall behind. I didnt realise 600x300 porcelain was prone to kicking out due to a problem in the mfr.

The ones I've got were all perfectly flat stacked together in packs of three. Wouldnt bowed tiles have been noticed when stacking up? Or am I naive?

[marcus]

The tiles I used that caused the problem had such a small deflection all from the same box that it was only noticeable afterwards when I got a level the same size of the tile and rocked it from end to end.
Although it is only a small deflection from end to end it is noticeable once the tiles are down and grouted, especially not helped as they are tight joints(2mm) so all the imperfections really showed.
The only way I would have noticed is to have checked it beforehand in this manner which I now realise was my big mistake! I certainly will in the future.

[whitebeam]

If they are stacked after firing then any bow would repeated and would not notice

[grumpygrouter]

Maybe a good way to check for this problem is have 2 tiles face to face and see if they rock. If they are flat they won't move.

[doug boardley]

got 1000x300 to start next week, luckily they're ceramic so won't have been fired to stoneware temps, but still hope they're not brickbond!

[MICK the Tiler]

This IMO is a production fault and lack of quality assurance on the manufactures part, unfortunately they will not accept liability once the tiles are fixed. (States it on every box) That's ok play by there rules next time and fault the tiles before you fix them then watch the tile shop run for cover, let them earn there coin, I get sick to death of seeing this problem week in week out and the only way to get around it is to get the tile shop to keep sending out tiles UNTIL THEY GET IT RIGHT!!!!

I recently done 200m2 of 600x300 porcelain and before I even started I faulted 125m2 with the same issues needless to say the tile shop was not happy with me, but as I kept saying "Stop selling the public S*** that you buy for $5 bucks a meter and then charge the client $45m2 If that ain't enough FAT on your C*** product for me to whinged a bit about a diserning client that commands perfection You'll keep replacing them until I say STOP!!"

[top tiler]

The trouble is the tolerance that is allowed is i think 5% but i must say the cheaper the tile the worse it is try to stick to italian porc chinese porc is rubbish

[doug boardley]

I always thought they warped during firing?

[Dave]

Thats debatable doug......some do, some don't...but incorrect stacking of them doesn't help..

[MICK the Tiler]

Thats debatable doug......some do, some don't...but incorrect stacking of them doesn't help..

Exactly Dave, The trouble lies where in China and India they use smaller kilns and have larger production runs, meaning the tiles need to be stacked at higher temps to continue production, Usually the tiles need to be cooled slowly very slowly the slower the less variation in size and deflection, Also the Italians and the spanish manufactures will commonly have over a dozen caliber sizings, by this I mean for instance a production run of a particular style of tile say 10 000m2 once cooled will be sorted into different caliber sizes usually a-n this will be on the box, 'a' usually the smallest in the series and 'n' being the largest. This takes time and costs money, money that goes into the eventual cost of the tile. Other manufactures would be lucky to sort 2-3 caliber sizes and stack them hot, hence the facial distortion that has become so common. 15 years ago these problems where rare.

[EXRM1802]

I think this is a problem that alot of newcomers encounter. one of my first jobs after my tiling course was 600 x 300 porcelain brick bond in a shower cubicle. Tiled it with a 2mm grout line thinking it would look Gucci and just couldn`t avoid lipping! took me for ever to get it right - the spot lights above beaming down showed awful shadows. I never would of known why if it was not for the forum.

[doug boardley]

I think this is a problem that alot of newcomers encounter. one of my first jobs after my tiling course was 600 x 300 porcelain brick bond in a shower cubicle. Tiled it with a 2mm grout line thinking it would look Gucci and just couldn`t avoid lipping! took me for ever to get it right - the spot lights above beaming down showed awful shadows. I never would of known why if it was not for the forum.

yes,damn those downlighters!! lol

[graybags]

I'm rather glad to hear that I am not the only one with this problem, I'll explain to the wife that it wasn't my fault !